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| Democracy; Attention! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2011, 12:00 PM (2,278 Views) | |
| Yasutomi | Jul 19 2011, 04:31 PM Post #51 |
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You suspect wrong: The Tragic Tale of Bob the Transxokyyrian There once was a man named Bob, who lived in a valley in eastern Transxokyyria. Bob was very well liked in his village, so one day his neighbours elected him to be their representative in the Senate, which was in Capital City many miles away. So Bob packed his bags, said goodbye to his friends and set off. After checking his map, Bob decided that the fastest way to get to Capital City would be to walk west. But very soon, he found his way blocked by some very high mountains, which he couldn’t cross. “Never mind,” Bob said to himself. “I’ll just follow the river south until I’m out of the mountains, and then turn west.” So Bob set off along the river bank, but very soon, he found his way blocked by a large fence. “What’s this fence for?” asked Bob, to no-one in particular. “It’s the border,” said a border guard from the next country. “Oh,” replied Bob. “Can I cross it?” “No,” replied the border guard. “The border’s been closed.” “Oh,” said Bob, scratching his head. “But I’m trying to get to Capital City and I can’t go west because the way is blocked by mountains that are too high for me to cross. If you won’t let me across your fence, I won’t be able to get there.” “Not my problem,” said the border guard. “Oh,” said Bob. “But why is the border here anyway? If you won’t let us through, then none of my neighbours will be able to leave the valley because there is no other way out.” “The border is here because it is here,” replied the border guard. “Stop complaining about the mountains!” “But I’m not complaining about the mountains. I’m complaining about the border. After all, the mountains were here first, so why doesn’t the border follow them?” “The mountains weren’t here first. The border was marked out when the world was featureless. The mountains were only added later.” “Oh,” said Bob, who was very, very confused indeed by now. “But that doesn’t make sense.” “It doesn’t have to make sense,” replied the border guard. “It just has to be realistic...” So Bob gave up and went home, and died without ever seeing Capital City. *** For the record and hopefully for the last time...I expected mountains. I wanted mountains. I didn't want significant parts of my country to be completely cut off from the rest by those mountains, because that would mean that whoever drew up the boundaries of the country didn't do a particularly good job! The terrain map clearly shoes a number of river valleys in the east of the spot which cannot be reached without either 1. climbing over some very high mountains, 2. tunnelling under those mountains (which would need a very, very long tunnel), 3. or travelling through the neighbouring spot. Whoever decided the boundary clearly had never been anywhere near the area...which doesn't really fit with the history as sketched out by Xos. That's my problem. But what really frustrates me is not so much the problem itself, but the fact that no one on the cartographic committee seems willing to even hear me out! |
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| Raz | Jul 19 2011, 05:26 PM Post #52 |
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Ruler of The Republic of Vantel
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You're right, that mountain range looks funky but my best fix would be to declare the area I think you're looking at (That peninsula-like protrusion into Xos and your other neighbor right?) a level or (slightly increasing) plateau until it gets into your country more so it's more accessible. For your border between Xos and you, just claim that on your border are the tallest mountains in the range so you split the range between you guys on an approximate Longitude. |
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| Amarek | Jul 19 2011, 05:35 PM Post #53 |
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I do love a good story. I assume that the tunnel is too unrealistic for your country to pull off, and as I'm on dial-up internet I can't really pull up the geo map, so I take your word for it and also assume that your coastline leaves much to be desired in the way of port cities, which is why you don't simply go by sea. As for Leraq getting his way in Econ, well...I'll just say I saw it coming. But once he said "my nation has this and this and this and I9 and X number of nuclear warheads etc etc etc", denying him Tier 1 again would've just kept the argument going in a circle (especially since we elected him chair and he would've continued to say "I'm Tier 1, end of discussion"). |
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| Florinthus | Jul 19 2011, 06:49 PM Post #54 |
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Resident Comic Relief
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Hmm... This is much like my spot in H2. There's a mountain range stretching north-south that cuts it in half. It also has a fertile river valley on the west, but my Capitol and major cities are on the east. I actually was planning a subterranean rail link through said mountains, because I believe my nations businesses are more than financially capable. |
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| Greater Laddneia | Jul 19 2011, 06:52 PM Post #55 |
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Science Adviser
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Yeah, no one likes the assigned geography... It was easier when it was flat... |
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| Yasutomi | Jul 19 2011, 07:38 PM Post #56 |
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Thanks, Raz. You're the first person to look at the situation and offer a constructive suggestion...and that makes me feel rather better. ![]() The border with Xos is fine...I've never had an issue with that. My only concern with the plateau idea is that the shading does seem to apply a somewhat steeper relief...but a discussion on that can wait for another time. ![]()
A tunnel may be a possibility now, but those borders we supposedly set no later than 1800, when the technology simply wasn't there. It's hard to describe the problem without a map, but essentially my spot controls the upper section of a river valley, whilst the rest belongs to the next spot. If you look at the geopolitical map, the border runs just above the confluence of two rivers, which in effect means that someone living in the easternmost valley can't get into the next valley without crossing into another country. And we can't go by sea because all this is happening quite a bit inland. ![]() Now as it happens, I can think of an example of one country controlling the upper reaches of a major river valley which is isolated from the rest of its territory by high mountains: the Engadine in Switzerland. However, several passes do link the valley to other Swiss territory (I don't think the terrain is right for that in Transxokyyria) and it is also worth pointing out that Switzerland evolved from a collection of small, independent communities, again unlike Transxokyyria. As it happens, I grew up in Switzerland so I have some first-hand experience of how mountains, valleys and borders fit together!
Personally, I would say that the problem lies with the spots rather than the terrain- after all, realistically, mountains and rivers come before borders, which have a habit of following them where possible. So I have a question to put to you all...why do the boundaries have to remain fixed? Surely the best solution to the problem is to keep a cartographic committee in some form or another, and then allow new players to request minor changes to the borders of their spot. This is exactly the approach that has been adopted in NS Europe. The map is divided into spots, like ours, but new players are allowed to request reasonable changes from the map-making team in order to get the spot they actually want. Their reasoning for allowing this is that "a player who is happy with his or her spot is more likely to remain active"...a sentiment I happen to fully agree with!!!
Edited by Yasutomi, Jul 19 2011, 07:39 PM.
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| Raz | Jul 19 2011, 08:43 PM Post #57 |
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Ruler of The Republic of Vantel
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Remember that whole "General representation" part you can change it minorly as I have suggested (I'm one of the three people who actually are active in the Cart Comte I'm sure it's fine ).Fix'd with my plateau idea. I like the semi-modifiable borders idea but Skye has the final say as she's the only one with the ability to modify the map. |
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| Xosaia | Jul 19 2011, 09:37 PM Post #58 |
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Scientific Research State
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Yasu, Raz pretty much said what I said in a more detailed manner: the shading and whatnot on the geo map are not necessarily representative of what is actually there. You can pretty much do whatever you, as long as keep in mind that the region is rather bumpy, and high altitude overall. The border can be a river if you want, it can be a glacier, it could be a canyon. You can ignore the texture features as you see fit; you have the final say in your nation. The colors are mainly what matters. This is my understanding, at least, and I was part of the original discussion, so I feel safe assuming I know what I'm talking about. I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough. In fact, I may ask you to help me formulate disclaimer thing that I'll suggest posting in the announcements section to Sky, since I seem to have difficulties explaining it. |
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| Yasutomi | Jul 19 2011, 10:00 PM Post #59 |
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Fair point!
Oh, definitely. It's just an idea that I've seen work elsewhere and thought it might be worth mentioning it here.
It's not that you were unclear; I was just fixating! I do appreciate that the detail is open to interpretation; I wasn't aware by how much. A plateau, as Raz suggests, would make more sense...particularly if there is another route through the mountains into Xosaia to the north. Having said that, I still feel that a modest boundary adjustment would be the most satisfying solution, but that would naturally require Skye's approval. Anyway...as a more general point, this is exactly what I was talking about when I spoke of flexibility. If players communicate their concerns with one another, and with the staff, then with a little give-and-take, most problems can be solved. Since we started this discussion, I've actually seen a lot of reasons to be hopeful.
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| Demoness | Jul 19 2011, 10:47 PM Post #60 |
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Amoratae Dea Augusta
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Clearly there are some issues among you, especially with communication, and I think you need to work them out before I decide anything about the Econ Committee. More or less, talk it out with Leraq or amongst each other in your forum, but please give me an update by this weekend. Individually or in this thread or however you like, but I'm putting any decision about the committee on freeze for now.
That's pretty much how I see. Hell, I have no specific dates and I don't really care if I keep those colonies; it's just a flavor thing for me.
I have to agree. That's how I upset Skye... @Yasu- Good use of a story to explain the problem.
You know, honestly, I don't know why we went with plots. I can't remember. When I joined, she kinda just drew some squiggly lines and that's how Feni and I came into existence. But it does make sense. I can get behind this idea provided they are minor changes, as you said, with the Cartography committee making the call on "minor". However, this is still complicated by the map problem... That said, I think Feni wanted his border altered. :-pOkay, I've gotten through the first round of PMs regarding the committees. At the very least, they're getting condensed as it seems a lot of people are not active. I've been thinking about combining a few as well, particularly the Welcome and Information Committees. I feel though, overall, if the committees can be condensed to one person (like the God of War ) then we might just have a committee with specific assignments. Most of you are fairly passionate about keeping the committees or have at least given me honest information. I think I will, however, remove the color differentiation when this is all over. I know the colors were to help identify people on committees, but 1) every committee is the same color and 2) it seemed to be more an incentive to be on a committee rather than help the committee.
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