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| Why I don't trust Islam | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 2 2011, 03:24 AM (1,731 Views) | |
| WATB | Apr 2 2011, 03:24 AM Post #1 |
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I am a supporter of the EDL. I came here to debate, about Islam mostly. I believe that the Hadiths show that Muhammad was not a man of peace, I believe that the Hadiths actually show that Muhammad was not as peaceful as what Muslims claim he was. I'll give a few examples: In Hadith Muslim (17:4196), a man confessed to Muhammad that he had committed adultery. Muhammad then ordered his men to stone this man to death. So if Muhammad was a man of peace and mercy, then why did he order his men to kill that man? Another example of Muhammad's violence in the Hadiths would be in Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 764, when Muhammad and his men the community of Khaybar, and Muhammad wanted some information from the treasurer of the community. Muhammad believed the treasurer was lying, so Muhammad ordered his men to torture the man. So if Muhammad was a man of peace, then why did he sanction the torture of a man? I look forward to seeing the responses. Also, I would like an explantation to verse 4:34 of the Quran, which says a man can beat his wife. |
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| The Peace Professor | Apr 2 2011, 03:48 AM Post #2 |
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Welcome to the forum WATB! this forum is here to clear all misconceptions about Islam. your questions will be answerd!
Edited by The Peace Professor, Apr 2 2011, 08:21 PM.
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Join up to this Forum & help protect Islam:(Please click & join) For Any One who wants to post in this Forum you need to post a New Thread in: Introduce Yourself!!! (This is for us to get to know you, so we can upgrade your profile to jnr member) | |
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| UK_Muslim | Apr 2 2011, 03:47 PM Post #3 |
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Thanks for joining the forum WATB. I hope that this forum can be a place of reasoned debate and i am sure there are many here who would assist you in the questions you ask. It's interesting that you say you are a supporter of the EDL. Can I ask.....what exactly is it that you support? In relation to your specific points raised, is it just to use one hadith to try to paint a picture of a Prophet? How about the many many hadith that showed how Muhammed acted with mercy, with kindness, with compassion? Read Book 58 of Maliks Muwatta for a start.With regards to the Hadith (that you failed to quote in its entirety), please read it again. To help you I have posted the full version of that Hadith below... Abu Huraira reported that a person from amongst the Muslims came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) while he was in the mosque. He called him saying: Allah's Messenger. I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away from him, He (again) came round facing him and said to him: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away until he did that four times, and as he testified four times against his own self, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called him and said: Are you mad? He said: No. He (again) said: Are you married? He said: Yes. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Take him and stone him. Ibn Shihab (one of the narrators) said: One who had heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying this informed me thus: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the place of prayer (either that of 'Id or a funeral). When the stones hurt him, he ran away. We caught him in the Harra and stoned him (to death). If we disect this hadith we can clearly see the mercy in Muhammed . He turned away from the man on a number of occassions thus giving the man an opportunity to walk away. But the man persisted and admitted his crime again and again. Then Muhammed questioned him. Again, giving the man the opportunity to walk away if he so wished, but the man in question stayed and answered the questions. We can see from this a number of things; 1) That the man had ample opportunity to walk away at any time. This is proved from the fact that Muhammed turned away from the man each time he admitted his sin.2) Had Muhammed not been a man of peace and mercy, he would have encouraged the man to bear witness against himself, but to the contrary, he turned away.3) That after testifying against himself four times, he was not immediately stoned. He was questioned. This again was an opportunity for the man to walk away if he so wished. 4) At no time during the mans confession or questioning did Muhammed order for the man to be detained or held to prevent him from escaping.5) After ascertaining the facts, the prescribed punishment was ordered. So, if a man admits to a crime, should he go unpunished? If I was in America and admitted to murder, would i not be punished? Maybe even put to death? The punishment of adultery in Shariah is death by stoning....as it is in the Old Testament. Muhammed simply carried out the law that was laid down for him by his Lord. Just because today we might think that that is brutal and barbaric.....doesn't make it wrong.Can you imagine American Soldiers on the battlefield with swords fighting against Iraqi soldiers also with swords......chopping off limbs and heads......horrific. No......much better to drop a daisy cutter from a mile in the sky That's not barbaric is it.In reference to the works of Ibn Ishaq, his was a collection of 'hadiths' with no clear isnaad (chains of narrations) and many of the scholars questioned his works. I do not know of any scholar who has authenticated that particular hadith you referenced. In relation to the verse 4:34 see the video below If you have any further questions, please ask |
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And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Surat Al-`Ankabūt [29:46] Follow me on Twitter | |
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| Compatriot | Apr 2 2011, 06:08 PM Post #4 |
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I'm somewhat intrigued & confused at your post as there seems to be some double standards here: You claim you don't trust Islam because Muhammad was not a man of peace. Well the EDL are a far cry from anything peaceful and have a reputation of creating havoc and fear whenever they rampage across any town or city in this country. They have attacked mosques, takeaways and people with whom they disagree both muslim and non muslim. If you were a man of peace and concerned about peace why have you joined this closet fascist clan (EDL) that masquerades itself as a human rights organisation? Also what are your views on the government of this country that has been exposed recently of giving its tacit approval of the torture of its citizens in foreign countries. I haven't heard of any condemnation about this from the EDL who are suddenly against torture? Or maybe they approve of the torture of muslims only? |
| Light travels faster than sound. That's why most people seem bright until you hear them speak. ~Author Unknown | |
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| isa.jesus1 | Apr 4 2011, 02:55 PM Post #5 |
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What does the Bible say about adultery? Adultery is the most widely condemned of the sexual sins; it is mentioned in the Ten Commandments, all four Gospels, and ten other books of the Bible. You shall not commit adultery. (NIV, Exodus 20:14) But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. (NIV, Proverbs 6:32) And a certain ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments, 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.'" (NAS, Luke 18:18-20) The word translated as "adultery" in the New Testament of the Bible is the Greek word moicheia. Its primary meaning was sexual intercourse between a married woman and any man other than her husband. However, the New Testament generally forbids all extramarital sex, so sexual intercourse between a married man and any woman other than his wife is also forbidden. In common usage today, "adultery" includes both cases above. Adultery destroys marriages. The adulterer shows total disregard for the marriage vows and for his or her spouse. In this passage, Jesus reminds us that not only should we always be faithful, we should also avoid the lustful fantasies that can cloud our judgment and tempt us into actual adultery: You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. (NAS, Matthew 5:27-28) |
| And Hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together & do not become divided… (Suraah Al-Imran, Chapter.3, Verse 103). | |
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| James Scott | Apr 10 2011, 12:30 PM Post #6 |
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LionSingh that was some heavy replies to your questions we could go on but really I would like to hear what you have to say about the above. Excellent replies UK Muslim, Compatriot and Jesus. Well researched and presented. |
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Allah says "Let there be no compulsion in religion, indeed truth and guidance is made crystal clear from ambiguity and falsehood" TMQ - Chapter 2 verse 256. He most high and blessed also said: "Indeed, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold falsehood does perish! TMQ- Chapter 21 verse 18. | |
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| James Scott | Apr 10 2011, 12:39 PM Post #7 |
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Sorry just realized you were WATB not Lionsingh, the reason I got mixed up was because: 1. I didn't read above clearly enough just skimmed ur post bec your misunderstandings are so famous. 2. I'm sure I've met u before the EDL old forum both lionsingh and yourself were you guys would br extremely rude and then the edl admin would prohibit my posts in reply. Anyway your both welcome here and you won't find us Muslims treating you the same way as you treated me' as long as you don't abuse or ridicule or vilify. Welcome to our non Muslim guest |
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Allah says "Let there be no compulsion in religion, indeed truth and guidance is made crystal clear from ambiguity and falsehood" TMQ - Chapter 2 verse 256. He most high and blessed also said: "Indeed, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold falsehood does perish! TMQ- Chapter 21 verse 18. | |
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| UK_Muslim | Apr 10 2011, 08:15 PM Post #8 |
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To be honest James, there wasn't really any research needed. As you mentioned, these claims by haters such as the EDL and others are like a broken record. It really is common sense that if you are going to quote hadiths or ayats that you quote them in full and also in there appropriate context. I don't know how many times we have to tell these guys this.....it just seems to fall on deaf ears. I think your experiences on the EDL forum just goes to show the manner of these people. They are rude, they lie, they are not interested in an alternate view, they quote out of context and they not only do not want a debate, they have absolutely no idea how to do so. They talk about democracy but act in a very undemocratic way. They talk about fairness and equality but treat you in the most unjust of manners. They talk about 7 th century barbarism yet look how they conduct themselves in their demos. A classic example of looking for the splinter in others eyes when there's a plank of wood in their own. |
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And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Surat Al-`Ankabūt [29:46] Follow me on Twitter | |
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| lionsingh | Apr 11 2011, 06:02 PM Post #9 |
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Hi... So where should we begin our debate 1) Defending the EDL ? 2) Islam and its failure ? 3) Racism ? 4) Responsibilities in the UK ? or should we start a new thread ??? Thanks James Scott ..... |
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| LU3 | Apr 11 2011, 06:11 PM Post #10 |
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Lionsingh, why would someone whose been active in the anl suddenly want to defend the edl?! You've lost me there pal. I thought by your introductionary post you were part of the Sikhs against the edl movement? |
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9:29 AM Jul 11
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acted with mercy, with kindness, with compassion? Read Book 58 of Maliks Muwatta for a start.
That's not barbaric is it.

9:29 AM Jul 11