sapphire answer this

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sapphire answer this; busy multi tasking at the moement
Topic Started: Jan 16 2008, 09:41 PM (188 Views)
bluebomber2425	Jan 16 2008, 09:41 PM Post #1
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	appartly, there was a hidden variable thrwoing me off, and you can actually kb decently at a low level. but I think that makes Hamstring even more important. You said taht a Skelegon thats Dped would take 5.4 seconds to reach the archer. And 5.9 with Hamstring. so Hamstrings slows the Skelegon by .5 seconds. you can kb about 1-2 times every second. I say once because usally a monster has kb invincibility for that .5 second when it is already in a kbed state. So Kb adds .5 seconds everytime it works? and it also knocks back the monster about lets say 1 step? assuming this. I know that it would increase 5.4 seconds to 7.9 w/o Hamstring assuming it stalls by .5. But, with Hamstring kept in mind how much would it impact the Kb, keeping in mind that the monster is still slowed and is being pushed back 1 step every second? you get it? youll figure it out...I gotta study for now.



Russt	Jan 16 2008, 10:03 PM Post #2
Formula Specialist Posts: 1,635 Group: Super Mods Member #4 Joined: May 9, 2007	The 0.5 second KB is just an approximation. But it's close to that, since it has to be shorter than an attack (or else attacks wouldn't KB) but long enough to cover most of the attack time since a monster under constant KB can barely move. And it's difficult to define 1 'step' I'll figure it out later. -eats dinner-
	"Ultimate knowledge is only an experiment away" - Magatian alchemist motto Maple Formula Sheet \| Hits Per Kill Calculator \| Lost in Phantom Forest? \| Knuckle Combo %DPS Chart \| Archer/Slinger %DPS Comparison \| Archer > Hunter > Ranger Build Spoiler Maze


strongdude	Jan 16 2008, 10:10 PM Post #3
The Creator, God, Overlord, Master, and curator of cookies. Posts: 545 Group: Members Member #99 Joined: November 29, 2007	If KB added .5 seconds every time, then we'd get approximately 2 more seconds every second we're firing O_o
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bluebomber2425	Jan 17 2008, 12:30 AM Post #4
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	ok fine assume its .3 of a step. I beleive tht is a conservaive number



Russt	Jan 17 2008, 12:53 AM Post #5
Formula Specialist Posts: 1,635 Group: Super Mods Member #4 Joined: May 9, 2007	Well... let's see. Assuming KB is 0.5 seconds, and moves a monster back 10 pixels. Skelegon w/ 80% speed (normal) 440 range � 80 = 5.5 seconds to get to you with no KB. If you have a 1/6 chance of KB on each arrow... assuming an arrow is fired each 1/8 second, a monster will on average be KBed every 0.6 seconds (not counting when it's already KBed). 10 range � 80 = 0.125 seconds + 0.5 = 0.625 seconds delay per KB. So every 0.6 seconds it walks, it gets delayed 0.625 seconds, which means 0.6 becomes 1.225... Skelegon w/ 80% speed getting hit by SoA at a 1/6 KB rate 5.5 seconds * 1.225/0.6 = 11.23 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you from DP range if you keep shooting SoA at it. Now with 3 Hamstring... Skelegon w/ 74% speed 440 range � 74 = 5.946 seconds 10 range � 74 = 0.135 seconds + 0.5 = 0.635 seconds per KB. 5.946 seconds * 1.235/0.6 = 12.24 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you. So if you're KBing at a ~15% rate, Hamstring will save you 1 whole second. But you already have 11 seconds... so it's really only a little. Over time it may help though.
	"Ultimate knowledge is only an experiment away" - Magatian alchemist motto Maple Formula Sheet \| Hits Per Kill Calculator \| Lost in Phantom Forest? \| Knuckle Combo %DPS Chart \| Archer/Slinger %DPS Comparison \| Archer > Hunter > Ranger Build Spoiler Maze


bluebomber2425	Jan 17 2008, 12:56 AM Post #6
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	eh they would be kding at a 36% rate. also thats in a DP situation. you won't be dping all the time, and it will not always be the full distance because platforms may exist etc, etc. But basically at that rate, your saying that Hamstring allows you to fire 8 arrows extra before it can attack you. when applied to RL, that should actually increase your dmg over time indirectly?



Russt	Jan 17 2008, 01:02 AM Post #7
Formula Specialist Posts: 1,635 Group: Super Mods Member #4 Joined: May 9, 2007	Oh. In that case you'd get KB'd once every 0.2 seconds... Skelegon w/ 80% speed 440 range � 80 = 5.5 seconds 10 range � 80 = 0.125 seconds + 0.5 = 0.625 seconds per KB. 5.5 seconds * 0.825/0.2 = 22.69 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you. Skelegon w/ 74% speed 440 range � 74 = 5.946 seconds 10 range � 74 = 0.135 seconds + 0.5 = 0.635 seconds per KB. 5.946 seconds * 1.235/0.6 = 24.828 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you. I probably have this wrong. But then again, if you're KBing on every 3rd arrow, and there's only 1 monster, it WILL take a substantial amount of time before it can get close. Edit: And I know that it isn't always gonna start at DP range, but it's kind of proportionate. If it's half that distance, then it'll take half the time to get near you. And I forgot about attacks... I don't know how far a Skelegon attacks from though... so I can't really do anything
	"Ultimate knowledge is only an experiment away" - Magatian alchemist motto Maple Formula Sheet \| Hits Per Kill Calculator \| Lost in Phantom Forest? \| Knuckle Combo %DPS Chart \| Archer/Slinger %DPS Comparison \| Archer > Hunter > Ranger Build Spoiler Maze


bluebomber2425	Jan 17 2008, 01:08 AM Post #8
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	Sapphire8 Jan 17 2008, 01:02 AM Oh. In that case you'd get KB'd once every 0.2 seconds... Skelegon w/ 80% speed 440 range � 80 = 5.5 seconds 10 range � 80 = 0.125 seconds + 0.5 = 0.625 seconds per KB. 5.5 seconds * 0.825/0.2 = 22.69 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you. Skelegon w/ 74% speed 440 range � 74 = 5.946 seconds 10 range � 74 = 0.135 seconds + 0.5 = 0.635 seconds per KB. 5.946 seconds * 1.235/0.6 = 24.828 seconds for a Skelegon to get to you. I probably have this wrong. But then again, if you're KBing on every 3rd arrow, and there's only 1 monster, it WILL take a substantial amount of time before it can get close. Edit: And I know that it isn't always gonna start at DP range, but it's kind of proportionate. If it's half that distance, then it'll take half the time to get near you. And I forgot about attacks... I don't know how far a Skelegon attacks from though... so I can't really do anything yes...assuming the monster is fully away from you. even if it was a shorter distance I am asuming you would still get the benefits of 1-2seconds. which is why I am saying that Hamstring allows you to get 8 more arrows out before being hit-risk and haveing to restart SoA. which would indirectly increase your dmg overtime, as well as be conservative towards pots. It doesn't outdo, Se or expt tho, but thats the conclusion I came to. is there a flaw to that conclusion. for ever second that hamstring hinders you get potentially more arrows out then you could have w/o.



Russt	Jan 17 2008, 01:12 AM Post #9
Formula Specialist Posts: 1,635 Group: Super Mods Member #4 Joined: May 9, 2007	Yeah, pretty much. Unless you can kill the monster before it gets to you.
	"Ultimate knowledge is only an experiment away" - Magatian alchemist motto Maple Formula Sheet \| Hits Per Kill Calculator \| Lost in Phantom Forest? \| Knuckle Combo %DPS Chart \| Archer/Slinger %DPS Comparison \| Archer > Hunter > Ranger Build Spoiler Maze


Zinc210	Jan 17 2008, 01:13 AM Post #10
AGF Member Posts: 91 Group: Members Member #111 Joined: January 8, 2008	I'm assuming these numbers are with level 10 Hamstring? Correct?
	Status: lvl 77, Got 3 more Arrow Rain. Still need to do them PPQs for my lvl 70 hat >.>; 75 done so far... Next level: Still More AR Plox Hawk's name: Tobias Argentum Puppet's name: Meat Shield Crow's name: Knitpicker White Tiger's name: Ivory


Russt	Jan 17 2008, 01:14 AM Post #11
Formula Specialist Posts: 1,635 Group: Super Mods Member #4 Joined: May 9, 2007	3 Hamstring. But I don't consider the probability of monsters getting Hamstringed. I just assume they're Hamstringed from the beginning. Edit: Oh yeah, I totally forgot to compare to 10. These are for how long it takes for a Skelegon to travel 200 range (1/4 of your screen horizontally). Skelegon w/ 80% speed 200 range � 80 = 2.5 seconds 10 range � 80 = 0.125 seconds + 0.5 = 0.625 seconds per KB. 2.5 seconds * 0.825/0.2 = 10.31 seconds with 0 Hamstring. Skelegon w/ 74% speed 200 range � 74 = 2.703 seconds 10 range � 74 = 0.135 seconds + 0.5 = 0.635 seconds per KB. 2.703 seconds * 0.835/0.2 = 11.29 seconds with 3 Hamstring. Skelegon w/ 60% speed 200 range � 60 = 3.333 seconds 10 range � 60 = 0.167 seconds + 0.5 = 0.667 seconds per KB. 3.333 seconds * 0.867/0.2 = 14.44 seconds with 10 Hamstring. And just for fun; Skelegon w/ 20% speed (this is slower than any monster in the game) 200 range � 20 = 10 seconds 10 range � 20 = 0.5 seconds + 0.5 = 1 second per KB. 10 seconds * 1.2/0.2 = 60 seconds with 30 Hamstring. Hahaha. (See, this is what I was talking about when I meant Hamstring increases exponentially... but this is biased, because on monsters faster than Skelegons, it won't be this effective at max. Also I think there may be a minimum speed cap, since otherwise you could theoretically get Stumps to stop moving entirely.) Edit: Now that I think about this... I calculated it wrong... there should come a point when the KB overcomes the monster's speed and you actually push the monster backwards over time.
	"Ultimate knowledge is only an experiment away" - Magatian alchemist motto Maple Formula Sheet \| Hits Per Kill Calculator \| Lost in Phantom Forest? \| Knuckle Combo %DPS Chart \| Archer/Slinger %DPS Comparison \| Archer > Hunter > Ranger Build Spoiler Maze


bluebomber2425	Jan 17 2008, 01:24 AM Post #12
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	Zinc210 Jan 17 2008, 01:13 AM I'm assuming these numbers are with level 10 Hamstring? Correct? well, lets put it this way. due to the nature of SoA. At minimum unless probaility is against you, in 12. 5 seconds 16 of those will be hamstring arrows. On avg one arrow will be Hamstringed per second....thats a very good rate...but it can hit nothing as well due to probaility. I almost compare the skill to Hawk. because at max its pracitcaly a guraantee that in less than a second you will hamstring, while at lower levels, its a lower percentage. statistics was not my fav subject of math...so that may not be that wells stated.



Werewolfkiss	Jan 23 2008, 06:02 AM Post #13
AGF Member Posts: 2 Group: Members Member #43 Joined: June 8, 2007	Sapphire8 Jan 17 2008, 01:14 AM Edit: Now that I think about this... I calculated it wrong... there should come a point when the KB overcomes the monster's speed and you actually push the monster backwards over time. posts after a long long time Indeed there should. Since in video's of 4th job we can see monsters getting kbed backwards away from the archer (papu for instance). Skelegons in the vids keep getting closer, but they generally die within 2 seconds anyway. And if they do get close you still have hawk, and possibly dragon pulse.



bluebomber2425	Jan 23 2008, 12:42 PM Post #14
Devil's Advocate Posts: 619 Group: Super Mods Member #52 Joined: June 18, 2007	whoa didn't see the edit. I thought you took that into mind >_> sap. Thats what I really really meant. How much would the Hamstring effect that compunded.



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