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| Military System Question | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 18 2011, 03:49 PM (2,188 Views) | |
| Deleted User | Jul 18 2011, 09:49 PM Post #91 |
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My main contention on the issue is that we're trying to make things as realistic as possible. My numbers (Aside from Population obviously) are perfectly in line with N. Korean troop numbers which have an incredibly small population (Considering the US has about 3 million troops both in reserves and active and In my calculations I include paramilitary units which aren't technically part of the country's armed forces.) Considering my NS stats numbers, I will more than gladly lower my population to 305 million (slightly less than the US), however taking the amount of GDP I invest towards defense, I can lower the number of troops I have, and I'm willing to try to lower it somewhere to 1.5 million, but I don't want to hear any gripes when it comes to the technology my troops and equipment will have. And I can even cap it at 1 million and even willing to become a non-nuclear state if I have to (except for power generation, that's something we pride ourselves on), but when my laser-powered jets start sinking ships in the Tyrrhenian, or when I set of EMP blasts to disable an entire fleet and my super well-trained soldiers are able to infiltrate an impenetrable base in a week, I don't want to hear anybody whining about "God-modding" I'm willing to work with you guys, but you also have to be willing to work with me. Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces |
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| Empire of Monaco-Ville-Nice | Jul 18 2011, 10:43 PM Post #92 |
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Byronmandy chose his population to be at that rate FYI Ixzara.... We agreed on a compromise and our numbers are where they are due to that compromise. I for one don't have any problem with New Sargassos numbers. You can always lower your population and just adjust your military percentage up to make up for the difference. Your military numbers are totally acceptable in my view however. As for Ixzara's population..... You're a little smaller than twice my size........ So that would put you in the 230 - 240 neighborhood. I don't understand this 300 million number at all.... That would put your divisions somewhere in the 80ish neighborhood. That's a reflection of the calculations based on our new system.... The stats you put up didn't reflect the numbers at all.... We all know you're bigger and expect you to be bigger in the forums... The truth is you're 2 times bigger not 3 or 4. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 18 2011, 10:57 PM Post #93 |
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Sounds negotiable. Ill get to work on the #s. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 18 2011, 11:25 PM Post #94 |
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Well considering you all have been negotiating, I will give you a couple of options. Option 1: I will lower my population size to 235 million, and keep my % population in the military at 2.2%. That means my population in the military will be 5.17 million total, of that 1.733 million will be active troops. With my GDP invested in defense, that means I have a moderately sized military with a level of technology that is about 5-10 years more advanced in military weaponry than the other nations (Which is reminiscent of military tech of the US in RL and is the most realistic). Option 2: Total Population size of 235 million* military percentage of 1.4%= Total military of 3.29 million (Closer with MVN and Byro.) active force of 1.096 million, which is somewhat higher than everyone else, but that means all Ixzaran military technology is one of the most technologically advanced in the world (10-15 years more advanced), is ranked #1 in combat situations, and I get my laser jets, and above average military training. Option 3: Total Population: 235 million, Military percentage of 1.13% which means a total military population of 2.65 million, and an active military of 883,000 (Both right on par with MVN and Byro) but Ixzaran technology is far superior to anyone else, we get the ability to play with superweapons, Ixzaran military training will be unparalleled in excellence while the Ixzaran military is borderline undefeatable. (In this case, anyone claiming to have any sort of their military capabilities superior to ours, will have to change what their claims are. |
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| Empire of Monaco-Ville-Nice | Jul 19 2011, 12:22 AM Post #95 |
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Or you get a population of 235 million at 2.2% which is high 70's or low 80's in divisions and you have the same training we all do. I don't understand why you think you should have this major advantage? Yes you spend twice as much as Byro, NS, and I on defense but you're twice our size. So naturally having an army that's twice as big and spends twice as much you would have the same training just twice as much. I'm not even going to entertain laser jets or any of that..... I don't think any of the other guys will either..... I mean is it really so hard to have 70 or 80 divisions???? It's not like we're telling you that you have 5 or 6 like a lot of the people on the map. You don't just get some major advantage because your nations name is Ixzara..... |
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| Deleted User | Jul 19 2011, 12:57 AM Post #96 |
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I'm not negotiating any farther than I already have. The reason I'm being so demanding is that switching our of NS stats means that now we have to come up with an imaginary system for calculating what numbers we get to use for an RP, which now means 4 hard years of work to get my numbers to what they are being thrown out to the garbage because someone came up with the ridiculous idea that we need to be on as much equal footing as possible, because even that is a laughing matter in RL, especially when countries like the US account for 51% of the world's military spending. And this damn system is really beginning to tick me off especially when there's people negotiating behind the scenes on what they'll allow each other to do as long as Individual A gets this and Individual B gets that. Now I'm limiting the options to whats above, and I might have gone a bit off of pure irritation on the lasers and superweapons because we're saying we're not going by NS stats, but now for some godforsaken reason just because my population is 3-4 times larger than what the NS stats say, its wrong. Yes I'm demanding an advantage. And I'm demanding the same advantages the US has in RL, because the US spends considerably more on defense than any other nation in the world. Because the numbers I want are realistic. And because in RL there are nations who have large populations, and have a large military as well. Just because you guys don't agree with it, doesn't mean I have to receive the short end of the stick and have to decrease my numbers because the someone who decided to use Devil's Island only has 3 people in their army. I've already done what you wanted as far as population size. I was willing to be on equal footing technique-technologically militarily, and any other which way with my nations population at 405 million. But you guys said no, because it was "Unrealistic", without taking into consideration that both China and India have 1+ billion people, using the rhetoric that it would be "Unsustainable" in Turkey, not taking into consideration that there's 150 million people living in Bangladesh, which is a country smaller than the size of the Yucatan Peninsula. So I scrapped that and cut my country's population by half. I'm not going to negotiate any further than what the 3 options listed above are. So its got to be one of those 3 options. Because if we can't come to an agreement on this, then we should just let the NS calculator do it's job, and play the game using the game's tool. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 19 2011, 01:09 AM Post #97 |
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Guys, it's obvious he's sticking to his guns (No pun intended) on this, and he does bring up some good points. I mean we can't just say we're not going to go by NS stats apart from one or two things and then turn right around and slam the brakes on him because his numbers contradict NS stats. It's borderline hypocritical. So I say we just give him what he wants even if we're not happy about it, cause chances are, he's not happy about what he's already had to do. So I'd say that just for the sake of prventing this argument from escalating we just stick with Option 1. I have no issues with people having advantages. It's those advantages they have that make the game more fun and interesting. Besides, it's like we say in law, "You know you've come to an agreement when neither parties are happy with the terms." lol |
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| Empire of Monaco-Ville-Nice | Jul 19 2011, 07:47 AM Post #98 |
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You're really not understanding my argument...... Anyhow we all pretty much created a system here that all the other nations are using and a lot of our RP's are based off of. You've been given a huge advantage (76 to 80 something divisions instead of your capped 50.) I don't really know what to tell you? Truth is you don't account for 51% of the regions defense budget.... Not even close to it really. You have a bigger budget and a bigger population, so your budget would go into kitting them. NS and I actually spend on defense at nearly the same rate or at a higher rate per capita than you. So if your army is going to be twice as big and you spend less money per capita on defense, I don't understand where this tech advantage comes from??? Do you want to go tell those 150 million people living in Bangladesh they live comfortably in such a small space??? I mean really? We all came to agreement when you 2 were inactive (Not blaming you just stating the facts) that the NS calculators were stupid and all agreed to do something like this. Now that you're back you're wanting us to go back to the calculators or accept your humble proposal? We agreed to do formulas or do a system back in early June that would bring everyone closer together rather than farther apart. I don't know what to tell you now that it's July 19th and you don't want to do it, and if you have to do it you need a huge advantage. Stuff happens when you're not around to debate it (Life gets in the way not blaming you). We all had an agreement on nuclear weapons (I wanted them) and then you just came in and were like "Well we have them!!!". It's just not the way you do things. I would love to have nuclear weapons!! I lost the debate and it was settled.... You don't just come late to the party and demand different food. Edited by Empire of Monaco-Ville-Nice, Jul 19 2011, 09:05 AM.
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| Byronmandy | Jul 19 2011, 05:24 PM Post #99 |
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Administrator
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I’m sorry Ixzara, but your demands cannot be accepted by the region. You say that you should be given power comparable to the RL USA. In order for that to happen, you would have to have an economy outrageously huge and actually spend more than the rest of the world combined on defense. If you look at the NS stats, which are what we are referencing to come up with these more manageable numbers, you will find that you are not as powerful as you think. You have 6.7 billion people, but I am not far behind at 5.5 billion. Your gross domestic product is also not too much larger than mine. If I wanted to, I could also make outrageous and unacceptable demands. However I don’t because I wish for the good of the region. I have compromised and made sacrifices to accommodate others and make exciting and fair RP possible. I believe that the region expects all others to do the same. This new system is what we will use, and myself, as regional founder and forum administrator will decide what is fair and what is not. I can’t really understand what you could possibly want with over 80 divisions? Baradoz is not the same as the Mediterranean. This is a region of young nations, mixed with a few older ones. We must make this region as fair and open as possible, if we don’t want to end up with the same fate as the Mediterranean. That means ALL nations must make sacrifices, including us experienced nations. Baradoz uses modern technology. Any attempt to use “laser jets” or “Nuclear missile satellites” will not be accepted. That is just pure god-modding, even if you deny it. We are also on the verge of banning all nuclear weapons in Baradoz. Everyone will need to comply with the decision of the region. Even you Ixzara. If you are so content to make these demands, then I recommend that you join other nations of similar size. Perhaps in Neo Mediterranean. This, however, is Baradoz; and all nations must follow the will of the region. We have decided on a new military system that all must follow if they intend to RP. If a single nation has nonnegotiable and completely ridiculous arguments, I suggest that they find another home. NS, you also need to realize how utterly ridiculous your numbers are. According to the Nationstates numbers that we use to get these new numbers, you have roughly half of my population and about the same GDP. You also will have to compromise if you wish to someday RP in Baradoz. |
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| Deleted User | Jul 19 2011, 10:33 PM Post #100 |
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I'm going to decrease my overall population, just working on the numbers, but I want militarily to have roughly the same amount I have now. |
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8:06 PM Jul 10