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North Chicanan state visit to Neoplanta; Talks in Montenegro
Topic Started: Jul 11 2011, 02:10 PM (713 Views)
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OOC: Aruba and Curaçao are both constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. Free Association is what the US has with a number of Pacific nations, such as the Marshall Islands. So I'm at a loss as to what you are really saying.

IC:
"Oh, I think I understand now." - President Szél replied. "The District Ministers act as coordinators between the different levels of government. Not something we have here in Neoplanta, but it does seem reasonable. And that your conflicts are more based on religion than on ethnicity, it basically boils down to the same thing: there is one group who see the culture of another group as something they will not tolerate, and act accordingly. Not that we had much problem with that in Neoplanta, either.

As the entire state was based on the revolt against the absolute monarchy of the Habsburgs, there was also the rejection of a Dei gratia Rex, and our government has been fully secular since. Also, we found no legal basis for the various churches to remain untaxed, which led to a certain decline in the popularity of organised religion.

Though one might be led to think differently, not even Islam, which is also present in Neoplanta, posed much of a problem. However, this is not the Islam that you see in Darjistan, for example. Our Muslims, who are mostly Turks, Bulgarians, and Bosnians, derive their faith from the Ottoman traditions, which were inclined to interpret scripture in practical ways. For example, up until the 19th century, despite the Kuran having forbidden the consumption of alcohol, they would drink it, but with one precautionary measure, based more on popular belief than the words of the Prophet; they would scream as loud as they could to have the soul leave the body, to prevent it from being made unclean by the prohibited beverage. Since then, the custom had died out, and today Muslims across the Balkans drink alcohol as if it was not forbidden. But they still don't eat pork.

Not to drag on the description of Islam in Neoplanta, let me just say that, in comparison to the more strict and demanding interpretations of the Kuran found in the east, our Muslim community lays faith in a more civil Islam.

In any case, my aim was to say that, over the course of the last two or three decades, our people have been turning more and more to atheism, but also to Buddhism and various New Age practices, with the more traditional churches either being to a degree neglected, or more or less going with the flow; we have a Star Wars themed church registered last year, and another one that is essentially a mix of Buddhism and the Matrix film trilogy. As long as they abide by the law, which includes paying their taxes, we leave them be, and only rarely do they cause trouble.

In other words, our people are accepting of most forms of religion, and in the great multitude of different faiths, rarely is any one of them singled out as an enemy for another. But this is not something that arose from the side of the government; the people chose this path on their own, and we just went with it. So I really can't give you any advice on such problems, however, I am glad that things are settling down."

Then a secretary came in: "Sirs, pardon me for interrupting you, but there seem to be urgent news that you might like to know about."

With that the statesmen left to find out about what's been happening on Nova Zembla.
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ooc: oops, my bad on Aruba. I guess it's more of they are independent but have ties to the home state that still makes them dependent on the state, so probably more like the Marshall Islands.

IC:

Jason was most interested in the discussion on Neoplantan religion - which was not quite on the discussion table he had in mind, but it was most important to understanding the ideas and people of Neoplanta should the Northerner be able to work out some sort of agreements outside the non-aggression treaty. But Szel had brought out some comparisons worth noting when dealing with the French Chicanan population, which were very much good Catholics (outside the whole supporting gay marriage aspect, as they were more morally against divorce) while the English Chicanan population had become more atheist or agnostic in their faith.

Of course, the war was more about the slightly paganish rituals of the past but that was for a different discussion for a different time. One of the Neoplantan leader's minders came in saying there was news that both states would be interested in. They left towards another part of the building, with Jason updating Aida as they passed going in different directions - Aida in a meeting with some locals about the history of the island was on a tour - and Szél updated Jason on the piracy issue in the northeast of the region.

"I wasn't aware of the issue," Jason said as they entered a long room with several secretaries and officers present, "but we've never had relations with states to the east and apparently our relations with the United Provinces are testy after the summit. Something about our Frenchness making us weak? I was a bit lost on the issue."

Szél showed Jason to his seat and both leaders were updated on the issues of Nova Zembla. Jason felt this was more up Helene's alley but he was already there and did his best to follow the meeting.
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"What concerns me is not so much the piracy, but the nuclear waste. The way it appears the waste has been dealt with, almost anyone might have gotten their hands on it and made a dirty bomb. Hell, with the information out, they may just do so yet! This is most alarming, and I believe we must do something about it. Even if not taken by terrorists, that nuclear waste is still very dangerous to us all, even if it is so remote from us."
Here Szél stopped for a moment to force himself to calm down. Then he continued:
"As for the meeting in New Amsterdam, I do not base much off of it. As first impressions go, this was a rather pore one of the Stadhouder, but let's not be hasty and give the man another chance, I do believe that in the end he does mean well. In any case, by helping his country to solve this problem with their nuclear waste, we are helping ourselves as well, perhaps more than helping the SUP, in fact. However, as Neoplanta has made it unconstitutional to use nuclear power, I am for the most part oblivious as to what is to be done with the stuff. What are our options? Also, I must admit, I don't even know does North Chicanan use nuclear power."

He then turned to a secretary of his and instructed her to hastily invite a few academic scholars to join them and hopefully enlighten them on the technical and legal aspects of dealing with nuclear waste.

"And here I thought we could take our time in talking about the Ukraine. But something always comes up - this continent is a Gordian Knot, with each strand in it a disaster either happening or just waiting to happen."
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Jason agreed that the continent seemed to be a tinderbox of problems, which is why the Northerners had tended to be more isolationist.

"I do agree, though, something should be done to assist the United Provinces and the Empire to deal with the nuclear waste issue. While we don't use nuclear energy - our landmass is a bit limited for using nuclear energy and our state runs more on hydrothermal provided from the Northern Isle, along with oil deposits off the Eastern Isle - we are aware of both the environmental and security risks this poses.

I am curious, however, why the United Provinces were using the territory in the first place for a waste site, and what other nuclear ambitions they harbor. I do believe our naval brigade can assist in the cleanup of leaked waste in terms of providing security for the area while the Provinces work on cleaning. We unfortunately have no tools at our ready to deal with the handling of nuclear waste, at least not with any of our naval corps.

I was hoping to have some discussion on the Ukraine situation, but we may have time to discuss later, as we await word from your scientists on the matter."

Jason did send a quick text to Helene on the issue. She expressed a bit of surprise on the leak as well as the leak of information, as reports suggested word on the waste issue came out of Darjistan. Neither the President nor the First Minister knew why the Darjis would be involved in the situation, but if they were it would breed yet another conflict that the state would probably be drawn into. As for piracy, Helene assured the president that the navy was on high alert along the northern corridor between the Northern Isle and the Norway Protectorate, but there had been no word of seized ships beyond the Province's island of Nova Zembla.
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"Well, in that case, let us talk of the Ukraine." - President Szél said. "I know I'm no physicist, so the whole idea of quickly grasping something of the sort is probably doomed to failure. And it does seem the problem is far greater than something we could handle at this time; better let the wider international community show some signs, and then start working on the problem together with other nations."

"So, the Ukraine. We both know what's going on: Veomo decided to grab some land, and the failed state that was the Ukraine suited them just fine as prey. I'm still stunned that there were no real statements of outrage and dismay in the region. Also, both the SUP and San Lumen; they acted in a puzzling way, as if they didn't mind that the Grand Duke is out to conquer a country. True, the government of the Ukraine was an oppressive one, and needed to fall, but will the Ukrainians be better off under the steel boots of Veomo? I doubt it.

However, what is there to do? Neoplanta is a neutral country, we had two wars in our history altogether; the one in which we gained independence from the Habsburgs and took the Balkans from the Ottomans, and the second one was the Neoplantan Civil War. It would seem that the Grand Duke will not take our demands seriously if we don't put our military into it, and that is simply something that we will not do; it is beneath us to behave in such a primitive way. And the other countries, they seem not to care what becomes of the Ukraine. I had the Pharaoh's word that he'd represent our plan in Vienna, but in the end he backed out of it, because we 'the neighbors of the Ukraine can't even come together in agreement'. Well, if we had an agreement, what need would I have had for MVN to get involved? I thought I had him convinced of the value of my plan, that I could use his wast military machinery and influence as leverage against this smaller empire. But it seems these empires will support each others in their respective imperialist enterprises...

In the end, I really don't understand only the Stadhouder. Cause yes, San Lumen didn't mind Veomo conquering the Ukraine, as the Black Sea isn't really in their sphere of influence, but to the SUP, it is practically their back yard. And they even let the Veomese army march through their territory. It's practically a surrender, they seem to have subordinated themselves to Veomese superiority in this. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes.

But I got carried away in giving you my take of the situation. I am most curious as to how things look like from a Northern perspective." - Szél set his curious gaze upon his college.
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"We had stayed out originally due to our questions as to the viability of the attack in the first place, really. we were a bit skeptical that Veomo was going to just stop Ukrainian aggression but with everyone supporting the action we chose to stay silent and monitor events. With the overthrow of the old regime, I and my advisers assumed the Veomese cause would peter out since their own goal of sorts was accomplished from within, even though they themselves caused unstability in the region.

Our views were expressed in the United Provinces, inasmuch as the Veomese have not provided any reason for the Northern government to not recognize the UDO as the official government of the Ukraine. And with the Duchy rebuilding and transforming Ukrainian cities, i would argue it's clear they won't leave until Kyiv falls and Veomo can officially annex the territory, which we have already criticized internationally.

As for the plan proposed during the conference, while we understand the usage of Monaco for manpower in lieu of your state we still were questioning the role they would play in the end, especially as Byronmandy was also committing forces to the region. However, with the Provinces backing Veomese demands and the Ducal Army not yielding to our pressure, albeit as small as it is, we've chosen to maintain our support of the UDO and have maintained our pledge to provide peacekeepers. Mind you, the UDO has not accepted our offer at this time and we will not see Northern troops fight a war with Veomo, as we don't have the manpower or the closer distance to support such a conflict. However, we feel it's necessary to get other states to come down on Veomo for withdrawl.

Since the Pharaoh and King Jason have chosen to stay quiet to the Grand Duke while in Vienna, I feel we may be the only states opposed to Veomese aggression, and unfortunately we may be unable to prevent the eventual seizing of the capital and incorporation of the Ukraine into Veomo. At that time we would consider our options towards Veomo economically and politically, as we would never recognize an expanded Veomo that incorporates Ukrainian territory into its state.

As for the United Provinces..."

Jason paused for a second

"I wish I knew what they were thinking in allowing Veomese troops through the state, although I agree with you on their subordination. Which is why I feel the Stadhouder spoke as he did, he's stuck supporting an aggressor nation and won't yield to the evidence that they were in the wrong. However, with their focus now on the nuclear issue, I wonder if they might be more agreeable to our issues with the land grab.

I do feel that all states in the region should recognize the UDO as the government in Kyiv, though, and call on Veomo to withdraw. I'd support a full international contingent of peacekeepers to aid in the rebuilding of the project, which would allow Veomo to participate but keep them from trying to alter the state to their demands."
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"Then we are in agreement" - Szél said after absorbing every single word Jason Fillweed had to say - "the Ukraine must not be left to Veomo. I am now thinking that perhaps we could pressure the Provinces into shifting sides; they are a democracy in the end. Could they be convinced or is it too late for that? But in the end, they are again not a country Veomo would listen to; that is why, making use of the Pharaoh's visit, had tried to gain him for our cause. And as the two of us are not willing to go to war over the Ukraine, it seems it is doomed to fall. Truly, these nations are a disappointment all-round, not one of them will take notice of a nation if they don't have something to gain from it."

Szél stared in front of himself for a moment, then said with a sigh: "Oh well, then we are left with plain diplomacy: recognising the UDO as the sole legitimate government of the Ukraine. Or perhaps you think we could win over someone and gain leverage?"
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"I had hoped to win Byronmandy to our cause, but the have been in silence for a while. I've become a bit frustrated by that, honestly, as they had sought to be a regional leader but have suddenly fallen silent.

As for the Pharoah and Queen, if we could convince him of the issue allowing Veomo full rights to the territory creates, maybe they would consider pushing forward with the proposal you had sought to craft in the first place. At this point, any concerns we have with Monaco's involvement would be set aside in order to protect the sovereignty of the Ukraine. However, I'm concerned that the Vienna talks would weaken our ability to press for a proper response from the regional community. I feel that the failure to get Veomo to listen to our concerns, and the Stadhoulder's outburst, have sealed the Ukraine's fate as a province of Veomo.

But if that does come true, we will never recognize their claim and push for hard sanctions against the state for their actions, and call on the monarchies to come down on their fellow member in the name of regional stability.

I do wish there was some other way to force Veomo's hand on the issue."
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As there really wasn't much else to say on the topic of the Ukraine, and other regional happenings were outside of the scope of these talks, Szél was curious what else might still be on the agenda. In any case, it was late in the day and a meal had been prepared in one of the more luxurious dining halls of the five star hotel, awaiting the statesmen. After that they would relax with some chamber music.
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Jason enjoyed the fine cusine that his guests brought out for the evening, and the lovely chamber music showed much of the Neoplantan charm. While listening, his thoughts would drift back to discussing a free trade pact with the state, but chose to discuss it the following morning.

During the morning breakfast, in which Szel's staff outdid themselves, Jason broached the subject. "I was curious, Mr. President, if Neoplanta would be interested into entering any agreements with the Northerners allowing closer links between our states? While my government is in the midst of working out details for creating a tariff-free zone amongst the northern states in the region, we would be very interested in creating closer ties with your nation, possibly through economic ties or through free movement of Neoplantan and Northern peoples between our states.

I'm also curious as to Neoplanta's interests in the region will shift after the recent vote by the Hellas protectorate to become independent. I trust it's a sore subject for your people, but I am curious if the state will maintain relations with New Sargassos in the long term."
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