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Painting; GROUP 33 PAINT
Topic Started: Jan 7 2009, 07:32 AM (2,463 Views)
oldjeep
Member
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I am getting ready to finally paint my beloved willys 3B after 5 years I figure its about time !!! was wondering what you all did as far as preping your MD JUAN repro bodies ? I am trying to strip mine compltetly down to bare skin .what type of paints are you mostly using .I am no body man nor claim to be but I really want to finish my Jeep myself as I have done everyother repair and rebuild myself from the bare frame up .so I am looking for advice on refinishing eg,acrilic enamel ,base coat clear coat .I plan to drive my jeep and do a little bird hunting&fishing and such so I am looking for durable finish .Any advice sure would be appreciated
Neil(OLDJEEP)


Neil Graham
1963 CJ3B
Ontario,Canada
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gearwrencher
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I only use Pro-Line paint made by Pro-line Paint co. in San Diego.Their paint was devolped for true industril uses like boats and air planes. Great stuff!! I start with 6001 high solid epoxy then go with their polyurthane top coat .their paint is well priced and very strong. I use it on all of my Jeeps and old Dodges.
Paint companies like PPG and Dupont are great but SUPER expensive!!!
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jyotin
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I would not strip it down to bare metal. Even though the MD Juan primer appears to have been applied with a mop, it is still primer.

Sanding with an electric sander works wonders. You can use a little body putty to fill in pinholes. Get a big tube of body putty, 'cause those pinholes seem to breed and multiply every time you think you have them all.

Sand and sand some more. You would be surprised at how smooth you can get that finish.
Periodically you need to wipe the whole thing down with a damp sponge.

Spray with a high build primer and then sand some more. More body putty...

I'd recommend using a quality HEPA cartridge mask when sanding. Sometimes I use a full face mask to sand, 'cause that dust just bothers my eyes.

As for paint -- I have painted four complete jeeps along with a few tops, doors, etc, some with clear coat / base coat, and some with enamel, and by far the better method is the clear / base coat. It seems like more work, but I think it is easier for the 'rookie' (that'd be me) to work with the two stage paints.

I love looking at and handling expensive paint guns, but the ones I buy are the 15 - 40 dollar specials at Harbor Freight Tools.
It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today.
54 - 3B - down on the farm
67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green
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oldjeep
Member
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does the high build primer adhere well to that old black primer and do you sand the underside as well? I am definitely a rookie at this !!!!
Neil (OLDJEEP)


Neil Graham
1963 CJ3B
Ontario,Canada
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Doug
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Meridian, Idaho
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Neil,

I've only painted one Jeep in my life and I hated every minute of it. I had to take the tub down to bare metal because when I bought it, the previous owner had some of it sand blasted already. I painted the underside of the tub with POR-15.

When I bought the paint, I told the guy at the paint store what I was doing and that I had never painted before and asked what he recommended. He recommended a urethane paint. Here is what I ended up using:

Dupont etch primer on the bare metal.

Evercoat URO-FILL Acrylic Urethane high build primer.

Dupont Ful-Thane 2K Urethane paint.

It came out looking pretty nice. Any discrepancies in the paint job is totally my fault (dents I didn't fix, paint runs from spraying too heavily, etc). It is still too early to tell how well this paint will hold up since I just painted it in the fall.

I bought a $70 spray gun with the hopper on top - I was still stinging from a previous purchase from Harbor freight. I've since heard numerous people say that the less expensive spray guns work fine, like Jyotin says.

Some tips that I've learned are very important (I painted my jeep in my garage; it's really small). Make sure you have plenty of room, lots of light (and then add some more), good ventillation and take your time - just like Jyotin said - sand, sand, sand and sand again. Also, make sure your spray gun is adjusted properly.

Even though I hated every minute of the body work, I'm still glad that I did it all myself. I learned a lot and have the satisfaction of saying that I did all of the work - even it it looks that way! Good luck.
1963 CJ3B - F134 Hurricane, T-90C, D-18, 5.38s, Overdrive, 938YF, 12V alternator
1969 CJ5 - Dauntless V6, T-14, D-18
2004 TW 200
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jyotin
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I have done a MD Juan tub and three other used tubs.
My goal was to sand the MDJ primer smooth and fill in pin holes at the same time.

I had no problem with the primer adhering to the MDJ "mopped-on" primer.

I sanded the exterior of the tub, the floors and the underside. Now, the level of 'smoothness' varied with what I was doing.

The underside was sanded mostly to get the primer even and sorta smooth and get rid of chunks of primer material. On the underside I was mostly interested in getting rid of all those small high spots (dimples??) that MDJ had in their primer.

I went over the underside with POR and then painted over the POR with the finish color. POR offers a special primer that will interface between their product and paints, I used that primer once, and the rest of the times I skipped it and just put a regular primer over the POR. No difference in adhesion, so I'll not use the POR primer again.

The high build primer over the MDJ primer helped to get more of the imperfections out.

I spent the most time on the exterior and cowl and dash getting them ready. The floors are nice to get smooth, but face it --- you are going to trample and scratch up the floors first..

The first time I ever painted jeep parts I was told that prep work takes more time and effort than final paint work. That is true -- the quality of your finished paint job can be no better than all that smoothing and sanding that you do in preparation.

I probably don't have to say this, but I will anyway-- Use a high quality HEAPA cartridge mask when sanding. Most of the dust you'll create is comprised of stuff that you would never want to breathe.

You don't use a HEPA cartridge(s) when painting -- when painting you'll want a good chemical / solvent filter(s).

With the solvent cartridge mask on-- if you can smell the paint the mask is not on correctly. I use a SAS full face mask to keep the solvent fumes out of my eyes as well. SAS has a full selection of filters from HEPA to solvent that screw on and off.
I wear glasses, so I took an old pair, removed the side pieces from them and fitted them inside the mask. They fit perfectly over the nose piece inside the mask.

You can't get a good seal on the mask if you have the side pieces of the glasses attached and running out and over your ears.


Those little white pinch-on-the-nose masks won't cut the mustard here.
It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today.
54 - 3B - down on the farm
67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green
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jyotin
Member
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regarding a sander --

I like to use a small triangular shaped electric - there are several on the market.
The sander uses 'velcro' to hold the paper on.

Now, the disadvantage of this sander is that the paper available for it is expensive and never in the right grit.

No problem -- I buy the round 4 inch velcro backed paper in 400 grit and just slap one on the triangular shaped velcro pad and sand away. The paper is too large for the sander, but that isn't a problem - in fact it is an asset!

Periodically, when the sandpaper gets worn I pull it off, turn it 30 degrees and put it on again and sand!

The sandpaper generally gets worn on the edges, so I can make a round piece of sandpaper last 5 - 6 times as long as I could a correctly shaped piece.

Also, since the sandpaper overlaps a little on the sides, you can get into right angle edges by sanding on the side of the sander where the excess paper rolls up a little.
It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today.
54 - 3B - down on the farm
67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green
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oldjeep
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I was again wondering if anyone has painted their tub floors underside etc with brush on box liner products just over the primer from MD Juan and how it adhered to it I would think it would deaden some of the noise from the body as well .Any Thoughts?
Neil


Neil Graham
1963 CJ3B
Ontario,Canada
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surprised_one
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Hey Niel

I brushed herculiner on the floor of my '78 CJ7 last year and all the kids and everything never hurt it at all so i did the underside and floor of my '63 3B as well

I dropped tools on the floor on the weekend and no damage that time so seems good!!!

George

cj7green@cogeco.ca
1963 cj3b
1978 cj7
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Tom in RI
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I have painted a couple of cars and jeeps. The most recent projects I used the U-tech paint which are for "fleet" application (its the value line for either PPG or some other paint company). I figured fleet paint is perrect for a road driven jeep since it will look good and take some abuse. Dupont has a low end line called Nason which is also perfect quality for jeeps.

The MDJuan primer is an unknown. It is likely a low end synthetic primer that may or may not be well etched to the metal. If you can tolerate taking it down to metal you eliminate the question that it might or might not be good.
Epoxy primer can adhere to bare rough metal. I blasted my M38 body and it was a good surface for the primer. 2 coats of the U-tech put enough material on to fill and level almost everything. If you are doing any body work you cannot put bondo over this epoxy. Their instruction sheets show its too hard to accept fillers so do the bondo work over the bare metal before priming. After the primer hardens you can wet sand it with 320 if needed.
Be sure to follow the instructions for epoxy primer because they have a recoat window of time. if you go beyond the window you MUDT sand the primer to get paint to adhere to it.

Paint - your choice depends upon what you want it to do.
Urethanes are expensive but are very durable. They are the best choice for a nice trouble free surface. They also spray pretty easily and you can choose single stage color or a 2 stage color clear. The clear coat method is pretty forgiving but you still should give a few practice shots Urethanes are also deadly to spray so be sure you use a fresh air respirator. A mask probably is not enough.

It took 2 gallons of thinned paint to cover everything on my M38. So whatever paint you buy be sure to look at the percentage of thinner needed then figure out how much color you will need to give you 2 gallons of thinned paint. If anything budget for more.

Enamels are old school. They look ok and are inexpensive but are not as durable. If you are driving in the woods you might have a lot of touch up to do and enamel is a cheap way to go.

Its easy to put your tub upside down and shoot all of the bottom surfaces including under the dash first. Then flip it and do the topsides. You can plan this out so that all your primer gets on in a day.
After letting the primer dry and sanding out any problems you can go to color.
I shot the bottom of my M38 with color first then turned the body over the next day, masked off the bottom and shot the top. it took longer but it was an easy way to be sure to get the whole body done.

Putting non skid on the bottoms and insides are mixed thoughts. I have never done it and dont think it will cut any noise out. One school of thought is that it will lock in moisture and cause rust. The other camp has it keeping moisture out. I personally like the nice clean look of solid sheetmetal with paint. But it depends on what you want. Max durability will probably have you putting some kind of heavy undercoating under it if you are going to put a lot of miles on the jeep in cruddy conditions.
A good quality epoxy primer will give you the absolute best rust resistance. It is tough stuff.

You can do a nice job. Be sure to practice before shooting the entire thing. If you have never sprayed before it, it takes a little practice to get a handle on how much you can lay on and not have it run. Your first coat will look ugly because you wont have full coverage. The second coat gets you a better coverage, the third coat you will go for gloss.

I get a kick out of doing all the bodywork and painting. Have a good time with yours. it will look great.

Tom

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Bruce
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I too like the idea of painting the jeep yourself. After having done all of the other work it just seems wrong not to. I'm sure the next one will be better, but even with some imperfections I couldn't have been prouder. I borrowed an expensive gravity fed gun, but given my inexperience I don't think the gun would have been a limiting factor. I used the epoxy primer and dupont paint. The only problem that I had was in applying the third coat, it looks slightly orangpealed. I think the air pressure was too low. Does anyone know if this can be buffed out? I drilled a hole in the firewall and bolted a bracket to the rear floor to clamp a 2 inch pipe that acted as a poor mans rotisorie.
Good luck to all future painters!! Bruce
Posted Image
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Bruce Pawlowicz
1953 CJ-3B with snow plow

_ l*****l _
*[OlllllllO]*
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jeeper50
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ol' skool jeeper jeff
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Awesome job!! Can I copy your rotisserie idea? I'm thinking about cooking a pig later this month, LOL!!! I like the idea of being able to twist the tub arounf to get at all the hard areas without having to stand on my head.
In the land of the blind... the one eyed man is king
Texan at heart, Georgian by paycheck

'53 CJ3B, F134, 12v alternator, lockrights, Hot-Spark electronic module,11"self energizing brakes, Belleview winch, Beachwood summertop, OD color, built to honor all Veterans of this great country


Kayaks- Hobie Revo 13, Hobie Outback 12' both ready for the salt...
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oldjeep
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As always the responses here are fantastic !! I have just returned from a prfessional body shop and agian have been enlightened with more things to ponder after the conversation it appears I may not be saving as much money as i think .as i already knew preparation is key and I do not have the propr facility to do the painting in .he has offered to come and take a look in my garage and give me a quote to complete the prep and paint . He is a top notch painter and his work is very well regarded as is his opinion . Anyone have theres profesionally done ? If so what might I expect cost wise ? should i sit down for this?
Neil


Neil Graham
1963 CJ3B
Ontario,Canada
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ewilson
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Posted ImageI coated the entire underside and interior of my OMX-ADA body with SpeedLiner, a bedliner product.
The exterior was sprayed with an epoxy primer and painted with acrylic enamel fleet paint. So far, so good.

Ed
WIRE PALADIN SAN FRANCISCO
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Tom in RI
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Ed
awesome job and nice setup!
yes, you can usually wet sand the orange peel and then polish it. But be sure to get hold of the paint instruction sheets. They are online or you may have to call the supplier. That will tell you what your window is for wet sanding and polishing. Usually you have a week before the paint gets really hard. I always have mixed results with wetsanding and polishing because it is yet another skill that needs to be developed..and I havnt developed it.
Another way to go is to wet sand your orange peel panel and then just shoot it again with one or two coats.
If you dont have the orange peel everywhere just repaint the panel and mask everything else.
Putting that 3B back together will be awesome.
Tom
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