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57 3b On Ebay - Close Connection
Topic Started: Mar 7 2009, 09:30 PM (1,188 Views)
yjcanibul
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there is a '57 3B on ebay , close connection - it was built just 2107 units before mine, it has old style dash while I have newer 12v style ...

nice looking unit ... only $ stopping me

Item number: 320347153418

Posted Image

Randy
57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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oldtime
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Something is wrong here ! Note the serial plate number for the 1957 CJ-3B is listed as 55268 33836.

1957 Willys-Overland Production Figures 1945-1961 states....

Model........................prefix.......start........end.......units
6-226 4WD PU.........55268.......33447.....40154.....6708

That makes the title a 6-226 4WD pickup. OUCH ! BUYER BEWARE !
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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yjcanibul
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good catch oldtime ,

I noticed the prefix looked a little odd while viewing it and was thinking it had a single digit typo - but now I see what your saying - 3 digits mapping to another model is no typo

since these jeeps are (slightly) older than me I really appreciate the knowledge on this site ... thank you

nice looking unit - within a few hours sunday the bids tripled on it - good to know your wanted




57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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derekredmond
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The Jeep has been registered in The CJ-3B Database for years by Joe Berberich. In his comments there he mentions a mistake in the VIN on the title. So certainly anyone interested in buying would want to confirm what is on the title and whether the VIN tag on the Jeep is intact and correct, but indications are that the serial number (33836) is the correct 3B S.N.

As seen in http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/SerialNos/...lNosEngine.html, the Jeep is actually a late 1956 model.

Interesting to note that the last 3B built with the five gauges on the dash (35521) is also listed there as surviving in Ohio.

Derek
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Derek Redmond
Kingston, Canada
1959 CJ-3B
http://CJ3B.info/About.html
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Jeff
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The Jeep appears to be in very nice shape for a vehicle that has ben frolicking on the beach. I wonder if it is the original body. From what I see from NH if it was closer, I would bid on it
Jeff
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oldtime
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Derek,
Thanks for the CJ3B Database reference.
I now see that this particular 3B is listed under 1956 as it should be if the serial plate number were actually 57348 33836.
Quote:
 

Interesting to note that the last 3B built with the five gauges on the dash (35521) is also listed there as surviving in Ohio.

Yes, I did notice the #(35521) in Ohio.
Yet I don't believe that particular 3B was built with five gauges in the dash.
Rather I believe it was the last jeep made with the King Sealey (mfg) cluster type speedometer.

What parts list are you using for reference, 2/62 UPL or ?
I take it you are reading note # 1 from Group 16.01 Instruments as your reference to the dash panel change ?
Note # 1 only states that a King Sealey 6 volt instrument was used up to serial number 57348 35522.
One can only infer that all jeeps past # (35521) must use a single instrument.
The note does not specify that all previous serial numbers were for use with the old style dash panel.

Till you catch up with what I am stating I will keep the very last Jeep having the 5 gauge instrument panel a SECRET !!!
In my opinion the 5 guage instrument panel is one of the most desire-able features any jeep owner might seek.

Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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yjcanibul
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maybe some one not registered yet can fill in the gap ...

1957 57348 35521 Ohio Will Roudebush
-- GAP --
1957 57348 35938 Washington, USA Duane Wantland
1957 57348 35943 Alberta, Canada Randy McAlister

assuming serial# were assigned sequentially Duane has oldest registered 3B
after 35521 then me , I am single guage dash layout ...

I am not 100% certain mine came from factory as 12v, I read when the dash changed the 3B went to 12v with 6v remaining an option , I think mine is in question as I have the nub on passenger fender to tie down the 6v battery - maybe this remained regardless , although I have an alternator ( currently single wire delco setup) there appears to be a bracket for generator also installed ...

anyone out there with something between 35521 and 35938 ?


Randy


57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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derekredmond
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Yes, these changes seldom happened all at the same time. Typically, something was changed by design, and then other parts would gradually catch up as parts stock was used up. My belief has been that the change to 12 volts as standard coincided with the change to the instrument cluster, but off the top of my head I can't cite documentation for that other than the wiring diagrams.

Oldtime, at the very least you have made me aware of an inconsistency in the information on The CJ3B Page:

When I referenced 35521 as the last 5-gauge dash, I did not refer back to a Parts List, but only to http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Dating/Dating1.html ("Dating a CJ-3B by Interior Details") where unfortunately I did not quote an original source.

On the other hand, in http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Specs.html ("CJ-3B Specifications") I say "Starting with serial number 57348-34452 a new larger speedometer/instrument cluster was used. It was either a King-Seeley p/n 911618 or Stewart-Warner p/n 913373." Again, I wrote that many years ago and foolishly did not quote the source.

So maybe 34452 is the secret number you are referring to as the last 5-gauge? If you can give me definitive information here, I will try to make sure the information on the website is as correct as possible, and at least consistent. Assembling the material on The CJ3B Page has been a 12-year piece-by-piece process, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised if some contradictions pop up.

Derek

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Derek Redmond
Kingston, Canada
1959 CJ-3B
http://CJ3B.info/About.html
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Duane
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Randy, my 57 has the single guage dash layout as your is and not 5 guage cluster. Duane
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oldtime
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Derek,
I will now address and reference details concerning the CJ-3B change away from the 5 gauge dash panel.
Without having specific service bulletins that address certain production changes,
we are fully dependent upon investigative research.
As you know I have many of the various Willys Motors Inc. and Kaiser Jeep Corp. publications upon which I rely.
I reference them all as the need arises; Mechanics manuals, Service Manuals, Various Parts Lists, Parts Catalogs, Service Standards and other publications.
Often the information concerning specific time-lines can only be gleaned by comparison of those various publications to one another. Publications I have range from 1946 well into the 1970's.
Given opportunity I would like to detail many of these Jeep publications at some point in the future.

The earliest known Jeep publication to address the dash panel change is the 11/56 CJ-3B Parts List.
Shown in portion, exactly as below.

Group 31-04 COWL, DASH and INSTRUMENT PANEL
# 681398 Panel, instrument assembly (Up to serial #57348- 34452)
# 692267 Panel, instrument assembly (After serial #57348- 34452)

The only other reference I know of comes from the 6/59 Universal Parts List published by Willys Motors Inc.
Shown in portion, exactly as below.

Group 31-04 COWL, DASH and INSTRUMENT PANEL
# 681398 Panel, instrument assembly (Individual instruments)
# 692267 Panel, instrument assembly (With instrument cluster)

To me, it appears this change may have occurred precisely between model years 1956 and 1957.

The earliest reference to use of various cluster instrumentation also comes from the 6-59 UPL.
The following reference never changed for model CJ-3B.
Shown exactly as found in the UPL.

Use with New Style Instrument Panel
(Cluster)

Note # 1 King Seeley (6 volt)
Up to Serial No. 57348-35522 (CJ-3B)
57548-49248 (CJ-5)
57748-12577 (CJ-6)

Note # 2 Stewart Warner (6 volt)
After Serial No. 57348-35521 (CJ-3B)
57548-49247 (CJ-5)
57748-12576 (CJ-6)
Up to Serial No. 57348-39839 (CJ-3B)
57548-61685 (CJ-5)
57748-13411 (CJ-6)

Note # 3 Stewart Warner (6 and 12 volt)
After Serial No. 57348-39838 (CJ-3B)
57548-61684 (CJ-5)
57748-13410 (CJ-6)

After the change to a singe large cluster gauge the model 3B remained as a 6 volt jeep just like the CJ-5
for a period of time. So the first cluster gauges were all King Seeley 6 volt.

From the above and various other references it becomes apparent that the change to 12 volts occurred no sooner than 57348-39839. (mid 1957) But the change to 12 volts was not all inclusive. From the Service Standards Publications one can see that a few CJ's were still being offered with optional 6 volt as late as 1963.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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yjcanibul
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Duane - good to hear from ya!

so oldtime, your thinking the first 12v factory 3B that rolled off the assy line was closer to Bob & Joyce or Peter Robinson ?

1957 57348 35521 Ohio Will Roudebush
1957 57348 35938 Washington, USA Duane Wantland
1957 57348 35943 Alberta, Canada Randy McAlister
1957 57348 36137 4J149282 Pennsylvania, USA Travis Howard
1957 57348 36721 4J73622 Austria Gerald Heissig
1957 57348 37249 San Leandro, California, USA Terry Beebe
1957 57348 39843 4J170468 Pell City, Alabama, USA James Fulk
1957 57348 39988T Western Australia Bob & Joyce Hood-Penn 12v ?
1957 57348 40685 4J173179 Nova Scotia, Canada Peter Robinson 12v ?
1957 57348 40718 Ontario, Canada William J. Glasford 12v ?
57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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oldtime
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Randy, Here's what I believe..... these all have a single cluster gauge....

1957 57348 35521 Ohio Will Roudebush Last 3B built with King Seeley speedometer
1957 57348 35938 Washington, USA Duane Wantland 6 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 35943 Alberta, Canada Randy McAlister 6 volt Stewart Warner
Since yours was converted to 12 volts it is very likely you have fuel gauge issues ?
1957 57348 36137 4J149282 Pennsylvania, USA Travis Howard 6 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 36721 4J73622 Austria Gerald Heissig 6 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 37249 San Leandro, California, USA Terry Beebe 6 volt Stewart Warner
Change in the Stewart Warner cluster gauge begins at # 57348-39838. All previous 3B's originally were 6 volt
1957 57348 39843 4J170468 Pell City, Alabama, USA James Fulk 6 or 12 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 39988T Western Australia Bob & Joyce Hood-Penn 6 or 12 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 40685 4J173179 Nova Scotia, Canada Peter Robinson 6 or 12 volt Stewart Warner
1957 57348 40718 Ontario, Canada William J. Glasford 6 or 12 volt Stewart Warner
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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yjcanibul
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yes - thats correct - I have a fuel guage problem on my todo list

this jives with the owners manual , it shows new guage cluster but
does not mention 12v or altenator ...

BTW : highest bid for Joe's '57 was >$5000 but did meet reserve ...


Randy


57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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