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Springs Revisited; GROUP 27 SPRINGS
Topic Started: Mar 17 2009, 08:51 AM (572 Views)
johnrb
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Member
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You guys gave me some great advice a couple weeks back when I asked a spring question. I've also re-read all the relevant items in the Tech Tips section.

It has warmed up here in Chicagoland so I crawled under the 3B to shoot the springs with some penetrating stuff to see if they'll loosen up.

And I found . . . Surprise - my rear springs are NOT a matched set. They are very different in appearance. One set has flat leaves that taper at the *edges* so the side of the pack doesn't present the almost flat face normally expected. The other set has a wide groove down the flat surface of each leaf. Strange. Both completely different from the front springs which are a matched set and look much newer and not very rusty.

Questions:
Nick recommended I check the C shackles to see if they are frozen. How would I do that? If I jack a wheel off the ground should I be able to bounce the wheel and see the shackle moving? Or are the springs too stiff to see that? If I can't flex the spring, I won't be able to make the shackles move. If I had an observer to watch, I could crawl over a curb and probably cause visible shackle movement, yes?

Larry S warned me not to expect a "comfortable" ride from an old Jeep. I don't expect it to be comfortable, but right now it feels like the axles are bolted solid to the frame. Every little bump and pothole makes the whole rear end of the Jeep bounce HARD.

The general tone of the collection in the Tech Tips is that common, aftermarket springs will probably be stiffer than original. Don't need that. Some say that 55 year old springs won't re-temper well so re-arching isn't a good long-term solution. So should I go to Alcan and get all new springs for about double the cost of JC Whitney, Walcks, etc.?

What to do, what to do?
John Burch - west burbs of Chicago
1946 2A - now I have one older than me
1949 - me - no longer older than all my vehicles
1954 3B - mostly stock - fun driver and snow plowing
1957 - 6 cyl Station Wagon - hope for the future

past Willys
1954 3B - no tub | 1959 3B - engine in pieces in a box

past addiction - VW
1969 Bus | 1970 Westfalia Camper | 1984 Westfalia Camper
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jeeper50
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ol' skool jeeper jeff
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I bought Superlift springs that are 1" higher than stock. They are softer than stock and the ride height is about normal, in fact I'm going to have to "add a leaf" to the front when I bolt in the PTO setup and winch. The springs required me to "update my shackles to the modern design. But it rides very smooth over bumps- oh wait, that's my truck!!! LOL
In the land of the blind... the one eyed man is king
Texan at heart, Georgian by paycheck

'53 CJ3B, F134, 12v alternator, lockrights, Hot-Spark electronic module,11"self energizing brakes, Belleview winch, Beachwood summertop, OD color, built to honor all Veterans of this great country


Kayaks- Hobie Revo 13, Hobie Outback 12' both ready for the salt...
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Larry (TX)
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John,

The rear spring you describe that has the tapered leaves is an original without question and if it's not pitted too badly, it may be able to be re-arched, and I'd imagine that the other sets are re-archable (hmmm, is that a word?...sounds good, so what the heck!) as well.

What I meant when I stated that you shouldn't expect a comfortable ride from most any vintage jeep is that jeeps weren't originally designed for driver comfort, springs or seat wise. In fact, as you may or may not know, the original jeeps were built strictly for use as four wheel drive 1/4 ton reconnisance vehicles for use in WWII and the life expectantcy of one, once placed in a battle zone, was only 90 days. The bottom and back seat cushions installed in those jeeps were maybe an inch and a half thick and consisted of cotton and horse hair. Most troops would place a wool blanket under the bottom cushion to gain a little better degree of comfort.

That's not to say you souldn't get some comfort out of your 3B however, and yes, whichever route you choose regarding spring replacement on your jeep will definitely have bearing on your comfort level, (I've found that using the 4" foam padding for the bottom cushion and 3" for the back helps the ride tremendously).

The spring shackles are the devices that allow one end of the leaf spring set to flex, and yes, your's could easily be frozen or rusted in place. They should flex forward and rearward and you should be able to check that flexibility with a pry bar. If you're going to change out your springs anyway, I strongly recommend that you install all new shackle sets (shackles, bushings and bolts) to complete the job for the best ride possible, (they don't cost that much more and you'll be glad you did it).

Next is shocks, which will also make a great difference on the comfort level, and I'm sorry that I can't recommend which shock will offer the best ride. Perhaps one of the other fella's who has recently installed such can make a suggestion.

And lastly, the tires you use will also be a factor (probably the most) in getting a (more) comfortable ride.

An item I forgot to mention above, and one that could easily disappoint you after you've done the spring replacement, is that the jeep could lean to the left side, and sometimes quite significantly, even with brand new springs. You have to remember that the engine in a 3B is positioned more to the left (of center; 15" on the left and 21" on the right), thus the weight is heavier on the left side. What I've had to do on many past spring replacement jobs is to have the left spring re-arched approximately 1 1/2" more than the right side, or add a leaf to the left spring, (I'm referring to the front springs only here). The last 3B that I placed new springs on, a '65 model, I bought the spring sets (and the shackle kits) from JC Whitney and the products were fine in every respect and provided a decent ride as well. Before that 3B, I performed a frame up restoration on a '53 model and used the Rancho brand, 2" lift springs (and matching shocks) and those springs also provided a nice ride.

Hope this info gives you a bit more insight to your situation. Please let us know how you progress.

Larry S.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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Larry (TX)
Member
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John,

While viewing a '60 3B just now for sale in Oregon, I read the current owner's description of his jeep and took note of the springs he's had mounted, stating they give the jeep a 3" lift while providing a "softer" ride than with the original springs. The new springs are a product of Holbrook Specialties there in Oregon; (he posted their website also, www.holbrookspecialties.com).

Just a suggestion, but perhaps it'd be to your advantage to look them up, call and see what they have to offer.

Larry S.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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