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Can An F4 Go The Distance ?; engine
Topic Started: Jul 4 2009, 10:47 AM (912 Views)
yjcanibul
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question - how many miles can a well maintained
F4 go before it needs major repairs ?

going through my F4 I found alot of sediment in
the oil canister so figured it was doing a fine
job

however inside the engine I saw

- lots of tar sediment in the exhaust
valve compartments gallows

- sediment (dirt) in bottom of oil pan

- sediment (gasket material / dirt ) in oil pickup ( pic below )

Posted Image

57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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Daryl
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Looks like condensation in the motor, might want to start it up more often if parked for a long time- maybe winter. Also helps keep the battery up. Changing the oil on these old Jeeps has nothing to do with miles, I try to change the oil once in the spring and once more in the fall. Just an ounce of prevention. Also make sure you are getting some crankcase ventilation.
Lotsa Jeeps, and a few extra parts
In Bonney Lake, Washington
Always willing to look at a Jeep for you BEFORE you buy it to check it out.
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COPPERSWILLY
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Copperswilly
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I have something to bring to light on how water gets in the motor. Leaving your vehicle in the rain or even washing it can allow water to enter the motor really easy. How you may ask...Well I noticed milky oil on the upper end of my dip stick one day and after changing the oil and not finding any trace of water I was baffled. I started looking around at other possibilitys and went into the oil bath air filter and walla the oil bath was full of water. The tube from my oil bath that runs to my dip stick tube was the route the water was taking to get in my motor. My jeep has a rusty bent up drip edge at the hood hinge. That was allowing water to run down to the oil baths intake holes and into the oil bath resevoir and into my motor via the rubber tube....worth a look
Chris .... MD
54 cj3b OIIIIIO
62 cj3b OIIIIIO
74 cj5. OllllllO
49 Bantam TC3
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yjcanibul
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good tip

I didnt find any condensation in the block, just dirt and gasket material - gasket material is common - but the dirt / sediment is an engine killer , my F4 is/was not burning any oil so believe I caught in time

was wondering if a well maintained F4 went 100,000 miles before a rebuild or if the filtration system cut that to 30,000 or some "on average" number

I plan to do as Daryl said change the oil couple times a year and run it more often cause it is garage bound.

awhile back I reconditioned my rain gutter over top air filter - I see its importance now , I cleaned the outter air filter baffle also which had 50yrs of crude , inside the filter there was condensation ( milky substance )

Posted Image
57 3B : big speedo / Hurricane / YF 938 SD / IAY-4012 / T90 / D18 / 5.375 final drive / open diffs / Firestone 6ply Military NDCC / 12v Delco SI alt / Kayline Top / venting windshield / tub patched / "still fixing leaks one at a time"

89 wrangler : h/duty axles + 5spd / 200+hp 4.2L / arb locked / multiport fuel inj / warn hubs+winch / 1/4 mil km / fishing+trail riding / gets me to work
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Rus Curtis
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VJ,
That's a loaded question with too many variables. A short answer could be yes, it can go the distance, But (and there's always a ‘but’).......

The engine must be maintained properly. Everything must be adjusted correctly and routine maintenance schedules observed. This includes repairs. Everything that moves will eventually wear out and need replacement.

The engine will not "go the distance" if ignored and abused. But this is the case with any engine.

Do you know what the suggested mileage interval is for the F-head? If I'm reading the '61 Owners manual (posted on this BB for download) correctly, it states every 2,000 miles. For heavy industrial/field work it is suggested to change at intervals of 50 hours.

If the engine has been neglected or has sat for a long time, then there will obviously be additional internal wear and you cannot expect the engine to "go the distance."

Short drives (I seem to recall trips less than 10 miles fit this category) cause more wear and tear than long trips (I think this is where most of the moisture build-up can occur). Dusty roads obviously expose the engine to more contaminates.

Every engine has moisture. It's drawn in through the carb (but burned) and is present in the block as well (this doesn't get burned up and therefore problematic). As I mentioned in an earlier post about the PCV system, the design of the hoses leading from the breather to the filler tube (inlet) is to draw fresh air in and due to suction (vacuum) from the PCV valve side, draws the excessive moisture from inside the crankcase out to be consumed via the intake. It is my opinion that this is what Chris is noting on his breather side of the filler hose (frothy milky buildup). There is a blockage on the PCV side or air is getting in elsewhere where it shouldn't, i.e. the filler cap gasket isn't sealing or no hose connected to valve cover. I believe that while water can enter in the breather, the design and function (assuming oil is used up to fill line) will only allow vapor (depending on weather conditions) to enter the ventilation hose that leads to the oil filler tube - unless there was a complete immersion in water. Nevertheless, I feel that if the PCV system is functioning, this problem will not appear. Personal example: All my hoses and a new PCV were connected. I still had the frothy milk build-up until a mechanic pointed out my oil filler cap wasn't sealing. Another layer of gasket caused a tight seal and the problem fixed itself.

Based on the pictures you've posted, I'd wager your engine has not been cared for. If you rebuild it and then treat it like a new car, i.e. regular oil changes, tune ups, fixing components when they fail, etc. I think you stand a better than average chance that your 'new' engine should “go the distance.”

Hope this helps.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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jyotin
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Those oil filters almost always have built up gunk in them unless someone has gotten in and done a cleaning.

The oil scavenge in the oil pan is another item that is usually very bad.

Instead of taking the engine apart, a simple cleaning of the air cleaner, oil filter, scavenge and oil pan ought to work out well.

If there is damage, it has already been done... but the jeep may run for as long as you own it just as well...

I have found that rings, valves and valve guides are what drives a properly maintained F4 engine into rebuild.

The oil scavenge needs to be taken apart... be careful of a fibrous gasket between the screen and unit. Try not to damage it.

In case you do damage that 'gasket', you could probably get away with valve handle "packing" string that is used by plumbers on faucet handles. Home Depot carries this.
It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today.
54 - 3B - down on the farm
67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue
?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green
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oldtime
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As everyone knows there are a multitude of factors affecting the "SERVICE LIFE" of any freshly rebuilt 134 Jeep engine.
These variable factors are far too numerous to mention briefly.

In my own experience I have gone from complete rebuild to complete engine failure several; times.
My last F-134 Hurricane was driven hard as a daily driver.
That rebuilt engine actually failed just beyond 70, 000 miles.
This failure occurred because I failed to size the rods during the rebuild.
I now recommend sizing the rod bores on all long stroke engines used at high velocity rpm.
The piston connecting rod was loudly heard as it hammered the crank journal bearing out of round.
I typically ran the F-134 at 3000 rpm on the road.
Ocassionally I ran it at higher velocities including the maximum velocity of 4000 rpm.

After dismantling the spent engine I found that the exhaust valves were also going bad.
The block had hairline cracks between the # 2 and # 3 exhaust valves.
That is a common high stress area for all Jeep 134 engines whenever the exhaust valve tolerances get off from the standard specification.
How did these routinely maintained exhaust valves get off from standard specification?
I found the exhaust cam lobes were severely worn ( perhaps .040").
I believe that was due to lack of Zinc Phosphate in the motor oil.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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ParadigmCrime
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COPPERSWILLY,Jul 5 2009
09:01 AM
I have something to bring to light on how water gets in the motor. Leaving your vehicle in the rain or even washing it can allow water to enter the motor really easy. How you may ask...Well I noticed milky oil on the upper end of my dip stick one day and after changing the oil and not finding any trace of water I was baffled. I started looking around at other possibilitys and went into the oil bath air filter and walla the oil bath was full of water. The tube from my oil bath that runs to my dip stick tube was the route the water was taking to get in my motor. My jeep has a rusty bent up drip edge at the hood hinge. That was allowing water to run down to the oil baths intake holes and into the oil bath resevoir and into my motor via the rubber tube....worth a look

Thats exactly why I dumped the Oil bath air cleaner. It caused me so many problems!!!

Not only was it allowing water to get in via that method, but one day I drove through a shallow creek, and it ran water over the hood of the jeep, dripped down by the oil bath air cleaner, sucked it in, blew it in the engine, and blew out the head gasket.

Then eventually even after replacing the head gasket spun my rod bearings, and I ended up doing a complete tear down of my engine, and a rebuild.

All thanks to that POS air cleaner.

After my rebuild I put on a regular air filter mounted on the carb, and put breathers on the valve and dipstick.

I took it back to that same creek.. took a deep breath, prayed to the jeep gods, and 4wheeled all the way through.

Its rained snowed, quite a bit of condensatin in the morning, and Ive gone through that creek a number of times now.

NO MORE WATER IN MY OIL!

Im so much happier, although anytime I go through a creek, I am a bit nervious!

My suggestion is dump the oil bath air cleaner, unless you are going for a total restoration.. in which case you probably wont be 4wheeling it anywhere or even getting it wet :)
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