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| Axle Rebuild | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 24 2011, 07:30 PM (2,012 Views) | |
| jyotin | Aug 27 2011, 11:48 AM Post #16 |
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Here's a good analogy -- Imagine the rear axle configured exactly like the front axle, except that the axle shafts coming from the differential to drive the hub are straight through as opposed to the front which has universal ( or similar) type joint about 14 or so inches from the outside end. Amost every 3/4 ton and larger truck has rear full floating axles. j |
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It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today. 54 - 3B - down on the farm 67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green | |
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| Jon | Aug 30 2011, 03:01 PM Post #17 |
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1954 CJ38
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Does anyone have any experience with the D-44 offset flanged axel with Trac loc? I understand it was an OEM to the ECJ-5. Any input will be appreciated. |
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54 (first one) all apart in basement, taking time, doing Engine swap (thinking sbc V8), disc brakes w/ vacuum assist. power steering. Love the look of a 3B but need the modern conveniences. Having a blast doing it. A Wise man Is Cognizant Of What He Doesn't Know. Worcester, MA | |
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| oldtime | Aug 30 2011, 08:35 PM Post #18 |
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To fully understand any particular axle you must have something to compare it with. For this reason it is advantageous to follow the Dana Spicer axle progession from 1941 military LRV Jeeps up to the end of the CJ's in 1985. "JEEP DANA REAR AXLE PROGRESSION" 1941-1945 The military MB / GPW Light Reconnaissance Vehicles (LRV's) have a Dana model 23-2 rear axle assembly. This is essentially identicle to the Dana model 25 front axle assembly except that it is designed without steering. It uses a full floating axle shaft design and the bearing spindles are integral to the housing. These earliest military LRV axles all have 4.88 (39~8) final drive ratio (FDR). The D23-2 rear axles shafts are no stronger than the front D25 axle shafts. Obviously these Jeeps were often in 4wd and front freewheeling hubs had not yet been developed. If running these light duty axle shafts with the front axle freewheeling they can be snapped off with abuse. 1945 -1950 When the CJ Universal was introduced it too had a Dana model 23-2 rear axle assembly. Virtually identical to the LRV axles except they have a lower 5.38 (43~8) FDR. This lower FDR along with a lower transfer case reduction were intendeded for plowing. From then on all Universal CJ's and post WW II military are solely equipped with 5.38 FDR until 11/1962. The Dana model 41 began it's production run in 1946. With this axle design the ring and pinion was greatly increased in size. Axle shaft diameters were also greatly increased. The D41 assembly is a semi floating design with 10 spline tapered axle shafts. Sadly Dana did not apply the superior full float design to this axle. It is very seldom that one will ever break a D41 axle shaft with a Go-Devil engine. The only available FDR for D41 is 5.38. 1950 -1956 The time proven Dana model 44 rear axle begins it's run with model CJ-3A. The D44 axle assembly was developed in order to provide FDR's other than 5.38 for various applications beyond CJ and MV. This axle assembly uses the same identicle tapered 10 spline shafts as the D41. All bearings also remained the same although the housings are distinctly different. Mainly the carrier dimensions were changed from previous so that the ring /pinion no longer interchange. The D41 actually has a larger ring and pinion than the D44 and could be considered as superior in that respect alone. Other than the R+P the D44 is every bit as strong as the D41. 1957-1963 The Dana 44 rear axle assembly was partially upgraded in late 1956. The complete D44 housing remains the same. The differential side gears and tapered axle shafts were changed to 19 invulute splines. This change greatly increased the strength of the axle shafts This shaft and spline change directly coincides with the POWR LOK limited slip developement. See: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/ar/t1119.htm The rear axle Powr Lok carrier option was available as an option since late 1956. These axle shafts are very strong and they are nearly unbreakable mated to the Hurricane engine. They will handle mild abuse from a strong V-6 engine. 1963 -1971 The standard FDR for Hurricane powered CJ's was increased from 5.38 to 4.27 (47~11) 5.38 FDR remained only as an option. The standard FDR for 1966-1971 Dauntless powered CJ's is 3.73 (41~11) 4.89 (44~9) FDR was an option for Dauntless powered CJ's. In 1966 a newly designed D44 carrier section was implemented. The only difference for the 1966-1970 axles is the shape of the carrier section. 1970-1971 In September of 1969 the flanged offset type Dana model 44 axle assembly first became available on the CJ-5 Renegade I. "Flanged" infers the hub to be integral with the shaft. (one piece) "Offset" meaning the carrier section is located on the right hand side. The ring + pinion gears remain fully interchangable. This axle assembly has larger diameter housing tubes than all earlier D44's. The differential case side gears were changed to accept 30 spline axle shafts. The Trac Lok limited slip option was available to accept these 30 spline shafts. Powr Lok was no longer a Jeep option. These axles will generally handle outright abuse from a Dauntless 225. However like most anything even these shafts can be broken. These splines are the strongest available and if broken they will likely break near the splines. Remember when push comes to shove Its better to break the axle shaft than an expensive differrential case. 1972 -1975 The D44 carrier section was centered on all CJ's to allow use of the silent type transfer case (model 20) with straight thru drive. The standard FDR is 3.73 with 4.27 as an option. Either the standard open case differential or optional Trac Lok limited slip was available. Same legendary strength as previous D44 offset axles only with a centered carrier section. 1976 -1985 We see the end of Dana Spicer use on all CJ's. In this year (1976) AMC Corporate model 20 was put on all CJ's. This axle assembly has inherently weak hub splines. The standard FDR is 3.54 (39~11 ?) with 4.10 (45~11) as an option. 1981 -1985 The Corporate model 20 was changed to wide track. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx As seen in this chart the axle shft diameters progressively increase. SPLINE COUNT---MIN DIA---SPLINE DIA--WB DIA----SIDES------MACHINE 10 front..............1.00"........1.120"..........xxx...........straight......hobbed 10 rear..............1.225"......1.225"..........1.375".......straight......hobbed 19 rear..............1.125"......1.245"..........1.375".......straight......hobbed 30 rear..............1.240"......1.285.".........1.55".........straight......rolled Overall the flanged type axles are the strongest ever produced for CJ's. The offset flanged D44 is rare since it was only produced for 2 years and many 1970 CJ's still had the tapered shaft rear axles. The offset flanged D44 finds its niche with those who want the strongest axle available for use behind the D-18 (dropdown offset) transfer case. Consider the dropdown offset D-18 the optimum choice for shortwheelbased offroad CJ's. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| Jon | Aug 30 2011, 09:40 PM Post #19 |
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1954 CJ38
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Thanks Ken for that chronological comparison and progress development. In your experience, would you know if the overall axle length has changed from the 10 spline 1950 to 1956 to the 1970 to 1971 30 spline flanged offset? Also would you know if the spring perches would be the same and would the offset pose a burden on the u joints if one was to drop these axels into a 3B? I see Jeep dropped the Trac Lok just as fast as they introduced it, do you know if it was it not meeting the expectations of the end user? Jon |
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54 (first one) all apart in basement, taking time, doing Engine swap (thinking sbc V8), disc brakes w/ vacuum assist. power steering. Love the look of a 3B but need the modern conveniences. Having a blast doing it. A Wise man Is Cognizant Of What He Doesn't Know. Worcester, MA | |
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| oldtime | Aug 31 2011, 07:52 PM Post #20 |
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Previous post edited with more input. The axle width for all Dana Spicer CJ rear axles is nearly identical . I will have to look at my notes but I believe the flanged D44 is 1/2" wider than tapered D44's. The frame width remained the same from 1941 through 1975 so axles are a nearly direct bolt in between these CJ's. Because the flanged axle housing tube diameter is increased they will require larger spring plates and clips (U bolt's) from a 1970 -1975 CJ. Shock mounting / location remains the same as before. The offset is the same as previous offset used with tapered axles. The reason these are termed offset flanged is mearly to distinguish them from the later (1972 -1975) centered carrier flanged type D-44 axles. The flanged D44's use whats called a unit type wheel bearing. It is a little larger around yet a narrower design than that of the tapered D44's. Technically speaking wider is better for offroad use. In actual service there seems to be little difference between the two types of wheel bearings. The Trac Lok case was Jeeps only limited slip choice for 30 splined axles (circa 1970 -1975) The later 1976 AMC corporate model 20 had there own limited slip design. The Powr Lok is superior to the Trac Lok case. The Powr Lok loads the input force into 4 pinion mate gears. Like an open carrier the Trac Lok only provides 2 pinion mate gears. That is the main difference between those two limited slips. Jeep never had 30 spline Powr Loks. 30 spline side gears or the complete Powr Lok cases can be used from the 1970 and later IH scouts. Using the 30 spline Powr Loks installed into the offset flanged D-44 makes for most rugged of all CJ axles. These are truely worthy for small V-8 use. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| jyotin | Sep 1 2011, 07:50 PM Post #21 |
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For a later version of the flanged, offset dana 44 axle, I think you'll also find it on CJ jeeps (1972 and newer) that had the constant 4wd. I believe it was called quadratrack??? The "normal" flanged dana 44 axle or AMC 20 axle on these "newer" jeeps had the differential centered on the rear axle, EXCEPT for the quadratrack option -- it involved an offset dana 44 flanged axle in the rear. It was set up to provide full time 4wd and the "transfer case" acted as an ersatz "differential" I don't think it was a very popular option in the CJ, so it is unlikely that you will be tripping over them in the scrap yards. j |
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It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today. 54 - 3B - down on the farm 67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green | |
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| jyotin | Sep 1 2011, 08:07 PM Post #22 |
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On the 70 and 71 jeep dana 44 with the flanged axle, the axle itself has a larger diameter and requires different U bolts and shock mounting plates from the tapered axle. Simply use U bolts and mounting plates from a '72 - '75 cj. In 1986, the CJ7 used dana 44 axles in the rear, and the U bolts and spring hangers probably (I've not checked it out) will fit the 70 and 71 flanged dana 44 axle. |
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It's just my luck that something good is going to happen to me today. 54 - 3B - down on the farm 67 - cj6 - former state of Alabama vehicle ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Ford tractor blue ?? - cj5 T98a - made from spare parts - Jeep green | |
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| Jon | Sep 2 2011, 08:27 PM Post #23 |
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1954 CJ38
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jyotin, thanks, great advice. I'm going to print out this whole thread, there is a lot of valuable information here. |
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54 (first one) all apart in basement, taking time, doing Engine swap (thinking sbc V8), disc brakes w/ vacuum assist. power steering. Love the look of a 3B but need the modern conveniences. Having a blast doing it. A Wise man Is Cognizant Of What He Doesn't Know. Worcester, MA | |
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