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| right/best starter? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 29 2012, 03:15 PM (2,289 Views) | |
| Rus Curtis | Oct 17 2013, 05:59 PM Post #16 |
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Steve, I'm sure there are multiple "techniques" but just as you would on a modern vehicle, I first energize, i.e. turn the key on, then engage the starter. |
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Rus Curtis Alabama '54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt" Bantam T3-C | |
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| oldtime | Oct 17 2013, 06:37 PM Post #17 |
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Now that an interseting question. Never thought about it but when I used a floor type starting switch I always turned my ignition on first. When you have a key start switch the ignition is always activated before the starter is activated. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| gianas | Oct 17 2013, 07:22 PM Post #18 |
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Question: I've never taken off a starter from any vehicle. Some of you may have forgotten what you can do incorrectly besides forgotten what you didn't know when you did it the first time with no assistance and not knowing what you were doing. So, please try and remember what someone can do wrong with this old starter, without assuming that I know anything, and tell me what to avoid, mistakes to make, if possible. It's gotta come off first. Thanks greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| jking | Oct 17 2013, 08:48 PM Post #19 |
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Greg, If you have a digital camera or capable phone - take pictures of all the connections for your own reference - the 2 main bolts and nut into the bell housing, the bracket that's attached to the starter and engine block, and all the electrical connections . |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| Rus Curtis | Oct 18 2013, 07:43 AM Post #20 |
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Greg, I like the idea of using a camera. I didn't do that when tearing down systems - assuming I'd have it back together long before I forgot....... Thanks to Lawrence for letting me take all those photos!!! I'd also label the wires prior to disconnect and take a photo. If your terminals are labeled, all the better. Labeled wires make it easier to identify which goes where. If your starter has all its mounting bolts you should have 3 (2 on bell housing and one on the backside on an "L" bracket). Disconnect the batt so you remove all potential accidental sparks. When the starter is loose, it should pull straight out (may need to loosen rear "L" bracket to pivot out of your way). I'd suggest reinserting all bolts in their original holes (bell housing and brackets) so you won't misplace those bolts when ready to reinstall. |
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Rus Curtis Alabama '54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt" Bantam T3-C | |
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| jking | Oct 18 2013, 09:50 AM Post #21 |
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Greg, I've recently installed mine so I'm a bit familiar with it. My tub is off, so I had a lot more room to work with. You'll likely be leaning over your fender. Once you've disconnected the electrical, the next most likely mistake you could make is dropping the starter as you take it out because of it's heft and your awkward position. One bolt screws directly into the bellhousing, the other longer one goes thru the bellhousing and is secured with a nut and lockwasher. I would suggest the following procedure. 1) Remove the shorter bolt (top right side of starter looking from the front) completely. 2) Loosen the front bracket bolt that goes into the block, but leave it a few turns in, enough to provide some support. 3) Remove the nut and lockwasher from the longer bolt going into the bellhousing at the lower left of the starter but leave the bolt in for support. 4) Support the starter from the underside with your hand and now completely unscrew the bolt going into the block 5) Pull the bottom bolt out that you removed the nut from. 6) the starter is free, back it directly out toward the front, only need to go about 3 inches. Lift out. |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| gianas | Oct 18 2013, 11:47 AM Post #22 |
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Some questions here about rebuilding. Have an appoint to go to; will thank everyone individually when I return. Have a friend who once owned a starter & alternator rebuild shop. He's a rather honest chap who told me he's known for doing sloppy work. So what should I watch out for when he rebuilds this old, original, 6volt starter? What might he miss or neglect? Is it easy to put in the wrong bendix? (Don't know if that's a "sound," applicable question.) What can be done incorrectly that might not be noticed immediately, for example. This, I believe, could/should be classified as a new topic; so, I'm gonna make it a new topic (rebuilding a 6v starter). I really needed the instructions I got from Russ and jking to feel like I know something about what I need to do to remove the starter. I'm sure it's no big deal to everyone else, but ruining something that's not easy to find, out of total ignorance, isn't something I want to do.Thank you. Greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| gianas | Oct 18 2013, 11:45 PM Post #23 |
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I mentioned above that I'd write tonight and thank the most recent posters who gave me much needed and appreciated information. Williams: thank you for your thoughts about an electronic ignition; I'm going to stick with points and learn how to tune the engine; I can't depend on the people within sixty miles of my place, so far. I want to drive what Willys created when I had my first one in the middle of a previous century, and that sure wasn't one with an electronic ignition. Yeah, I know I can be called a fool; that's a better name than other names. John RB: You told me things I never would have known about my gauges and the rest. Thankfully, they're all working, even the gas gauge; it flickers some, but it's accurate; and all the others are accurate. The first two things I looked at when I bought the jeep were for rust and whether the gauges worked (because I thought that might tell me the degree to which the previous owner maintained the vehicle). If a guy doesn't pay attention to the oil and temp, who knows what he's allowed to happen to the engine, was my novice point of view. Every vehicle I've ever owned went well beyond 200,000 on its original (not rebuilt) engine because (I believe) I paid close attention to the gauges and changed all the fluids everywhere, and I mean everywhere, myself, at 2,000 on the button or less if under heavy use. This 54 3B will be no different. ... Another thing I've always done in the past many decades is keep the engine and it's compartment spotless, so I can see leaks as soon as they begin. That's saved me thousands of dollars in repairs on many vehicles. I may not have know "what" was wrong, but I knew something was wrong and took it to someone who told me what was wrong, and it was always fairly serious, a potential-toast-the-engine problem. In other words, any solid information anyone gives me, I'll use. Thanks, John. Rus, Ratchet, and JKing: Your instructions for taking out the starter were really helpful. I know it's obvious how it comes out; however, the steps, what to do first and second and third were NOT obvious to me; and that's precisely what kind of information I was seeking. Thank you. Also, Rus, your thoughts about the right-sized cables and the grounding strap where something I looked into as soon as I got the jeep. The grounding strap was there, but the cables (I thought) were too small. ____ Sam told me about cleaning the grounding strap while the battery's out. One of the problems with the starter is that it won't start the engine if the carb floods the engine, which is the result of the carb rebuilder ignoring the written information I gave him written by Jon Hardgrove, Oldtime, and Sam BEFORE he rebuilt the carb, and using a rebuild kit he made from a part here and a part there, all for other engine applications. So, a while back, you can be sure I remember what both Oldtime and Sam told me (a year ago) about addressing one problem at a time. When I get the carb nailed down (working as it's supposed to work), then I can be more sure what the problem is with the starter. Or, at least I'll know more about whether the incorrect carb rebuild is preventing the starter from doing it's always dependable job. Many people have helped me, and I'm grateful. greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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7:23 PM Jul 10