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bad leak; from where is it coming?
Topic Started: Sep 11 2012, 12:52 PM (3,334 Views)
jking
Member
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D18 refers to the Dana 18 Transfer case. T90 refers to the transmission.
1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case.

Northest Ohio
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gianas
Member
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Doug: Thank you so much for all the links. There's no guarantee that whatever route I go, I could easily need to remove the transmission and transfer case again; so learning how to do this and mess with the transmission—without letting the jeep out of my sight, in the hands of people I don't know—is something I need to do.

Bob: Thank you for your welcomed honesty about building all your furniture and house, but having problems with wrenches and presumably mechanical things.

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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gianas
Member
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jking: Thanks for the D18 clue; I'm not yet well versed in the vocabulary of the jeep, but have been taking Oldtime's suggestion to read the right service manual cover to cover.

greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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O.K. Greg please try to keep your post "ON TOPIC".
It's certainly not that we don't care about your personal condition....
This is just not the appropriate forum for all discussions.
Every thing on here is specifically intended to be 3B Jeep related.

Doug's write ups are greatly appreciated.
I will ad some additional advise for various steps along the way.
Greg, I will need your full attention.
When I ask a question of you I need a direct answer.

Does your Jeep have a roll bar installed ?
Do you have a 1 ton or larger come-along ?
Chain type is preferable to cable type but either will do and neither is mandatory.
Do you have a 1 ton or greater hydralic scissor jack ?
Do you have a 1 ton or greater hydralic bottle jack ?

At a minimum you will need a set of sockets, a ratchet plus open and box end wrenches.
Also Allen wrenches and hammer and drift pins, screw drivers and channel lock pliers.
A torque wrench reading in ft lbs. is very desireable for re-assembly.
I know you have a wood lathe and you will likely put that to good use to make a clutch disk pilot tool.

As previously explained all bolts will be right hand thread unless specificaly noted otherwise.
After removal I suggest you put all bolts, washers and nuts back into relative positions whenever that is feasable.
When removing wires please tag them with masking tape to identify their specific location for future re-assembly.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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gianas
Member
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OT, I'll edit what I think you're referring to.

I have all the stuff you mentioned, except the "drift" things, which I'll get. I use a chain hoist to get 200-pound wood blanks onto the wood lathe, so, the hoist is of the chain variety. Have bottle jacks, 3-ton floor jack, roll bar ... torque wrench. The roll bar is not a cage-type; it's the type I wouldn't buy mounted on the thin metal at the top of the wheel wells, not frame-mounted. I mention the type of roll bar because none of it is "above" the transmission; it's only behind the front seats. Some undercarriage parts I've touched are metric; some aren't, and I don't have any wrench smaller than an 10 mm. There is a 6X16 wood beam in the garage, directly above the jeep. I don't know the proper attachment to put there to use the chain hoist, but my guess is that's something to consider.



greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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spm1us
Member
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Greg, according to Oldtime's last post you own a wood lathe. If so then you can also make/turn a wood dowel to use in reloading the needle bearings for the countershaft. Just make it slightly longer than the cluster gear to hold the thrust washers in place while placing the re-assembled C/S gear in the case. You should also make it slightly smaller than the steel countershaft so that it slips easily out of the case as the steel countershaft is driven into place. Be sure to align the slots, for the "T" shaped locking plate before driving it home. A little #3 aviation gasket sealer helps at each end of the shaft to seal the case from any weeping gear oil. I can not put any higher recommendation for T90 or D18 parts than Novak. Their parts are made in-house from alloy steel and properly hardened. I use their T90 countershafts and D18 intermediate shafts exclusively for their durability, consistency and quality. If you need other parts, Herm sells quality parts,too. Most small parts kits, gaskets, synchronizer assys and 2nd speed gears I buy from Crown Automotive. Stay away from any OMIX-=ADA parts as their quality and fit vary considerably. Good Luck with your project, Sam michael jr, Jax, FL
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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O.K. we will attempt to put the chain hoist to good use.
I prefer the hoist method to the method that Doug used to lower the transmission and transfer case assemblies.

To use a hoist the Bestop must be removed.
Find you a level work area.
If you happen to have a level area with an overhead structure (stout tree limb) to support the chain hoist that might be ideal..
The very center of the transmission (stick shift) needs to be centered under the hoist.
To hoist with a roll bar, a strong timber is placed between the center of the roll bar and the center of the windshield.
A small hoist / come-along will drop down to the transmission.

Please indicate if any those hoist methods will work as described.
Otherwise you will need to lower the assemblies with a scissor type jack.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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gianas
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Doesn't appear that my post concerning the hoist I have and the beam in the garage, directly above the jeep went through or is posted yet. I have plenty of wood beams from sawmill work. I just don't know what's a safe attachment mechanism to use to connect the 6X16" beam in the garage ceiling to the chain hoist.
greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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gianas
Member
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OT, I edited the stuff you requested to be edited before you asked me to take them out. Went back and looked, 'cause I knew I took it out, and it was gone.

will be at doctor's appt. for some hours

Hey, Williams, I'll take a picture of the beam in the garage, which, by default, will reveal the secret jeep you want to see. (I'll take a picture of the engine, too. Maybe you can tell me how a real stock setup is supposed to look involving all the tubing and lines going from the fuel pump to the carb, 'cause that's the way I intend to make it, totally stock, sooner or later.)

If I show the beam in the garage and the jeep, that way, someone who knows about this stuff can recommend what kind of attachment mechanism I should use on the beam for connecting to the chain hoist. I have no idea what attachment mechanism to put there because I'll be lifting heavier weight than I have using the chain hoist with the 4X4, wood beam over my wood lathe. Williams, everything you want in time.

greg

greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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williams3b54
Williams3B54
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Hi Greg, sorry I touched a nerve. I had no idea that you have this affliction.
My wife has Parkinson's with Dementia so I understand how things are in that area. We are in our 70's.
Obviously I did not know that others had made suggestions of other shops in your Western Washington area. I will keep my inputs on this blog to only jeep related stuff. You are right I am not a purist about our 54 HH ( highhood ) it likes to get off of the pavement and get dirty. Pretty much what it was designed for. I still think showing us a picture helps with the helping process. A jeep is a jeep no matter what condition it is in at any time.
The shop in Auburn is TC's and they are very good also. Western Washington has a bunch of reliable shops and jeep people. Go to the Pacific Northwest 4 Wheel Drive Association web page and check out the list of clubs there. The majority of them are in Western Washington, a number of them are in the Everett area, not far from where you live in Redmond. I have a relative that lives in Bothell and has been jeepin' for many years. My two brothers live in Shelton Wa. and they have been jeepin' since 1969.
Herm's business is in the Vancouver Wa. area, down by Portland Oregon. More precisely his location is Brush Prairie Wa. 98606. You can also check out Randy's ring and pinion in Everett for gear associated problems.
D18 is a DANA model 18 transfer case.
Good liuck Greg with your jeep project.
Dick W. Spokane Wa.
1954 CJ-3B
Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest.
See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954.
1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968.
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gianas
Member
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extraneous, edited out
greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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gianas
Member
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have to fix the fact that the photos didn't go though later tonight; sorry I didn't get that right. Tried.
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Daryl
Member Avatar
Member
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These Jeeps are getting very old. There simply are very few shops-if any- that work on stock universal jeeps with any regularity. One of the best 4wd guys that I know just had to be walked through taking apart a Warn overdrive.
Lotsa Jeeps, and a few extra parts
In Bonney Lake, Washington
Always willing to look at a Jeep for you BEFORE you buy it to check it out.
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gianas
Member
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Daryl: Kindness related to understanding is healing for all involved. Thanks, Daryl.

I can say with objectivity and honesty that the shops I've gone to for help were owned by good people who meant well, but they weren't telling the truth about what they knew or the experience they've had with Willys jeeps. Few master mechanics want to tell a new customer they can't figure out something as "simple" as a Willys jeep.

And then, there's this "problem" with Willys jeeps (from my perspective): Everyone who's worked on Willys jeeps for years, no exceptions, tells me their very simple; an idiot can work on them. From the little experience I've had, I believe this is a true statement with some caveats. What's not being said about Willys jeeps by most gurus of Willys jeeps is that there are some quirks about certain tasks : taking certain parts out, aligning certain parts, knowing how and when to use certain specialized tools ... the secret things that can make an accomplished auto mechanic, who has never worked on an old Willys jeep, make some pretty serious mistakes, about which they will never tell a soul because of pride, maybe too much pride.

I'll give you an example from Ratchet. At the time, there were more than a couple people having trouble getting their fuel pump in it's slot. Ratchet remembered what he forgot he knew and told me to hold to fuel pump up high when putting it in, to make the installation easier; he didn't say, "You'll figure it it out. Any idiot can do it." He offered tricks of the trade that most jeep gurus forgot they knew or don't really want to share, for whatever reason, and that one piece of information made my day, even my week, because it enabled me not to have the same trouble other guys were describing who had a ton more experience under a engine hood than me. It's too bad that knowledge is often treated like blood: if you take some out of yourself and give it to someone else, you've depleted something vital from yourself.

Often, to give another man valuable information is to make his life easier while confessing how you made regrettable mistakes when it wasn't easy for you. Who wants to do that? Who will take the time, or have the time, to do that, while revealing the telling of your mechanics's story that reveals, "No, you didn't always know everything and you can't always, honestly, say that you think all jobs on a Willys jeep were "simple," so simple an idiot can do it." If you confess making a mistake, you might look like an idiot and take some flack from those who will be very quick to say: "It's so simple, an idiot can work on a Willys jeep."

In other words, it's just like high school, when you'd hear people say, "That was an easy test. I didn't even crack the book. Anyone who thought that test was hard is stupid."

Recent OPPOSITE examples of those who confess big gems of warnings based on making embarrassing mistakes or oversights, lack of experience doing a certain Willys job, or whatever such regrettable errors might be called:

(1) Jking's mention of aligning the friction plate (about which I know nothing yet), except the valuable advice about not taking its alignment lightly.

(2) Or this from Jking: "If you will need to separate the tranny and tc, pay close attention to the procedure for doing so, otherwise you will end up having to rebuild the tranny after you hear the 88 roller bearing drop into the bottom of the tranny case."

Imagine sharing that. Imagine how that might make you look, confessing a mistake, but how helpful that information is to a novice. Sharing such information is like a rope thrown to the novice when he's stuck in what feels like a burning mine shaft. And I'm not the only novice reading what generous 3B owners are offering.

(3) "If you do put a new bearing on the mainshaft, it's a bit of a trick if you don't have access to a press. Heat/cold combo can be used and again, others can detail this better than I can - I failed on my first attempt."

The greatest generosity is sharing embarrassing mistakes to avoid; but, because most men want to look good, smart, and experienced all the time, we often have trouble sharing the valuable lessons we learned the hard way. We often tend to want other men to learn the hard way too—as if our investment in the time to learn what we've learned "the hard way" would be be dramatically decreased in value if we saved someone else from making the same mistakes we made when we didn't know what we were doing.

That's how the world stays screwed up ... but not on the 3BPage.

don't know what I didn't do right with posting the promised photos, but I'll get'em there tonight. Thanks again, Daryl for what you said.

greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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The hoist will only be required to lift and lower about 200 pounds.

So a good stout rope to fasten it down will suffice.
I would not tie the hoist up to a pine 2 x 4 but an oak 2 x 4 timber or anything larger should easily suffice.
I repeat the Jeep must be positioned so the hoist hook will drop exacty onto the center of the transmission.
It may be required to lift the transmission slightly but mostly it is needed to lower the transmission to the floor and pick it again up upon re-assembly.
So adjust the mounted height of the hoist accordingly.

Just let us know whenever your Jeep is in position with the wheels chocked.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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