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| bad leak; from where is it coming? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2012, 12:52 PM (3,333 Views) | |
| gianas | Sep 12 2012, 09:54 PM Post #31 |
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these are the photos I promised of the beam from which to hang a chain hoist and some photos requested by Dick Williams of my jeep, because he said such pictures will help him offer help. When people want to see the jeep, they always ask me to lift the hood; so the hood's lifted for Dick. ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| gianas | Sep 12 2012, 10:26 PM Post #32 |
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One suggestion by Sam, since this is a daily driver jeep, and down time is a problem, was to get a T90 and D18 from Herm. I contacted Herm as suggested and had no idea about the varieties available. He asked me the following questions, none of which I have the knowledge to answer. I would suspect you all have some thoughts that would be helpful so I could answer Herm's questions ... not all of which, as he indicates, are asked in the following email: "Greg, short shaft, long shaft, side shift, 26 tooth, 27 tooth, 29 tooth, small hole t/f case, large hole t/f case. with e-brake. without e-brake, 3 1/4" yokes, 2 3/4" yokes, single lever, dual lever, do you also need an output shaftb gear or not????????????????????????????????????????????????? Herm" _____ beats me; I'm lost, which is why I'm seeking input from forum members there's another reason why this may be a reasonable solution if, IF, money were not a concern: I have a deadline for something I'm writing, and it will require writing all day, every day for two months. One thing I remember the owner of Olympic 4WD when he looked over my jeep. He said that the shaft was larger than what came on a 54, and he thought that was a good choice by the original owner to upgrade the size to the next one up. I don't know anything about all the rest of the questions Herm asked me to answer. greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| Daryl | Sep 12 2012, 10:50 PM Post #33 |
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You have a short shaft, top shift, probably t-90c if stock 64 You need to know what spline your overdrive is to know whether 26 or 29 tooth. Small hole e-brake 3 1/4" 1310 u-joint dual stick You don't need an input gear because you have a overdrive. |
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Lotsa Jeeps, and a few extra parts In Bonney Lake, Washington Always willing to look at a Jeep for you BEFORE you buy it to check it out. | |
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| gianas | Sep 12 2012, 11:24 PM Post #34 |
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Daryl: "probably T90c if stock 64," you say. My 3B is a 54, if the number "64" you mentioned referred to the assumed year of origin. If you thought my jeep was a 64 and not a 54 does your analysis change? Thanks for the analysis. Greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| Daryl | Sep 13 2012, 12:07 AM Post #35 |
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I was thinking 64, I stand corrected. Others may chime in, but I would still stick with the gear ratio of the t90c. I feel the c gears are even more suited to an overdrive. So the rundown stays the same. Opinion alert: I do feel it a little over the top to wholesale swap out the entire transmission and transfer case because of a leak. Anytime you replace a component, you run the risk of getting an inferior part to what you are currently running. With that said, I know that Herm is pretty careful as to what he puts his name on. Your dollars though, so do what you think is going to work out best for you. If you chose to get another, keep your current setup and use it to learn how to rebuild it yourself. |
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Lotsa Jeeps, and a few extra parts In Bonney Lake, Washington Always willing to look at a Jeep for you BEFORE you buy it to check it out. | |
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| oldtime | Sep 13 2012, 09:21 AM Post #36 |
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Fully agreed. A transmission / transfer case swap is getting way ahead of your immediate concerns. Your plan of action is to drop the assemblies for needed repairs. Then perform inspections to specifically address reasonable preventive maintainance. At this time it has not been deemed reasonable to fully rebuild or replace the existing T90 transmission. That can only be determined via existing problematic symptoms or upon internal inspection of the transmission. DON'T FIX IT IF IT"S NOT BROKEN ! Drill a 5/8" or 3/4" hole throught the beams center and use a 1/2" steel rod or 5/8" nylon rope to support the hoist. The engine assembly will weigh about 500 pounds. P.S. your Jeep looks fine , you should be proud ! |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| gianas | Sep 13 2012, 10:09 AM Post #37 |
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Daryl and Oldtime: I was not going full bore to swap the transmission; I was only following up on suggestions from others to consider that option. (Don't want to ignore what anyone suggests to me at this point in my high-ramp, learning process.) Despite what I know the two of you know, I agree with what you both say, not counting that I don't have the dough to be buying extra, major components for convenience. Hope what's described next will be acceptable to you and others: A new job has come my way; it will require nearly full attention, preventing me from working on the transmission, except in spurts over the span of a few months. Yes, that will leave my daily driver the 54 3B down, but the old truck still works. When I get the equipment/tools suggested, and the hoist up, I'll let you (anyone reading this) know. The only fact that makes me feel that it's acceptable that I get this much help is that, in this case, it would be really true that if "I" can make these repairs with your recorded instructions and photos I'll be sending, then the record of these transmission/clutch repair events will be useful to those at extremely low-levels of experience with a Willys repair like this, for the following reason: No one reading this can have a lower level of knowledge and experience than me. Hence, the cliche would prove true: If I can do this with your help, then anyone can. I don't know how I got so lucky to have the help of those on this 3B page. Thanks to all, at a very deep level, deeper than I'd want you to imagine. Greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| williams3b54 | Sep 13 2012, 11:33 AM Post #38 |
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Greg, thanx for posting pictures of your good lookin' 54 CJ-3B. It looks a lot like the one I have, ours has a few different items here and there. I am not a purist, just a nutty jeeper. If you are only going to fix the leaks on the drive train, ( tranny/ transfer case ) I would suggest renting a tranny or motor cycle jack and you can remove everything from underneath the jeep. Remove the tranny floor cover and then take the top off of the tranny as well as all,of the shiftlevers. Everthing then will comeout from below. What does that beam in your garage support above it? If you were to use it you might think about a couple of 4 x 4 posts put along side the jeep and placed underneath the beam. Just a little insurance that what ever is above doesn't get disturbed. Dick W. Spokane Wa. |
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1954 CJ-3B Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest. See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954. 1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968. | |
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| Rus Curtis | Sep 13 2012, 04:16 PM Post #39 |
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Greg, That's a mighty fine specimen you have there! |
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Rus Curtis Alabama '54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt" Bantam T3-C | |
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| gianas | Sep 13 2012, 04:20 PM Post #40 |
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Dick: Excellent suggestion regarding the four-by-four posts to support the beam. Imagine the picture of the 14X6 beam inside the jeep, on top of a half-extracted transmission, with the contents of my daughter's old room (above the beam) on top of the beam. I'll post a picture of the eye bolt (or whatever it's called) I'll be using to connect to the chain hoist. It's rated for holding 2400 pounds IF, if, it's vertical; and one-third the amount of pounds if it's horizontal position, which it will be. I'm sorry to hear about your wife's condition: loosing someone when they're still "there" must be heart ripping. I can't imagine the feeling. Regarding this 3BPage: One reason why having experienced eyes (plural) on this project is related to what happened to my uncle, an accomplished carpenter, but not by trade. He built a garage and used a fork to lift large beams. The project "got a head of him," in the sense that he forgot to measure the height of the forklift and the height of the lowest, entry-way beam. You see it coming, I'm sure. Yes, he built the garage and then couldn't get the rented forklift out of the garage because the entryway beam was lower than the height of the forklift. That mistake required him to disassemble a fair portion of the garage and do it all over again. Significantly: No instruction manual for building a garage will tell the manual's reader to do something that a person, even with intelligence and great common sense, might neglect when feeling so good about the progress he was making. Such lack of common-sense "instruction" made the construction job twice as demanding, costly, and time consuming—not counting more embarrassing and humiliating. That's why the 3BPage is better than a good doctor. Forum members can remind people with more experience than I possess not to forget what should be obvious (with common sense), thus preventing stories no one wants to tell—but should tell. Hence, in a literal sense, the 3BPage is like a "team of doctors" offering vital information, observations, and suggestions to the "first responder" who is also "the patient," along with his or her jeep being a "patient." Such vital and experienced input, provided in tandem to someone doing a job like this for the first time, can't be matched by any other process of instruction on earth, as far as I can currently imagine. If the field of medicine would use this 3BPage method of communication from a set of knowledgable individuals, there would be fewer malpractice suits and fewer patients who were harmed more by a doctor mistake than by the medical condition that plagued the patient. Often, I wonder if the world and it's people have progressed in the past 2,000 years. The 3BPage gives me continual hope. Thanks to all who have tried to help. The 3B page is such an extraordinary collaboration, it can relieve clinical depression in some people. greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| williams3b54 | Sep 13 2012, 07:10 PM Post #41 |
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Greg, you did read in my blog you do not have to lift your tranny and transfer case out from the top? It will all come out from under the jeep. It is a lot easier that way. If you are going to pull the engine, again go to a rental store and rent an engine hoist and forget about the beam and chain hoist, you can pull the engine and then roll the engine away from the jeep to the bench or where ever. Greg, can I ask how old you are? You do not have to tell the world, just curious. You have heard about the guy that built a boat in his basement, "common sense" Dick W. Spokane Wa. |
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1954 CJ-3B Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest. See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954. 1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968. | |
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| oldtime | Sep 13 2012, 07:38 PM Post #42 |
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No one ever mentioned removing the transsmission through the top. That's absolutely absurd if you think about it. I've done these via 3 different methods. 1)By manually lowering and lifting the transmission / transfercase and bellhousing assembly into position. 2)By use of a chain come along. 3)By using a commercial transmission jack. I find that the come along or hoist method provides certain advantages. It is very easy to rig it for balance. If properly rigged it allows for fine tuning of angle and height upon re-assembly. Plus there is no way for it to fall off the transmission jack. Greg is welcome to use whatever method he prefers. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| gianas | Sep 13 2012, 08:51 PM Post #43 |
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Dick, to answer your questions: (1) Yes, I read what you said about taking the transmission out from the top and bottom. ... I have no place to rebuild it in the garage, or any place on track-house property that's reachable with an engine. So, frankly, I can't yet picture how I"m gonna do this, but I'm workin' on it. In short, I'm looking into all the alternatives. (2) I'm leaning toward pulling the transmission out rather than the engine, based on (a) having a couple people on the forum tell me that's the way they'd do it ... key word "leaning." Still open to any input, considering the level of my knowledge and experience. Also, (B) the way our house is constructed, I have no room to mess with the engine IN the garage, and no easily possible way to move the engine anywhere else where it can be worked on under cover, without more special equipment. The garage is not "mine." It belongs to my wife's car, too. It rains here and neither of us want her car in the rain, not even temporarily. (3) I can't, yet, explain how an engine works. I can't yet identify most of the parts I'm going to soon touch. Until a few weeks ago, I'd never seen a brake shoe, except through someone else's mag wheels. (4) Your question above concerning "common sense." In a previous post, you said I had no common sense. You were only half accurate. Sometimes I have common sense; sometimes I don't. Slight but significant difference. My first step is to do my homework, Dick: Read all the stuff people have generously told me about by supplying links, so that the words forum members use to tell me what to do are something I can understand and recognize. Also, get the right tools and ensure that I can take the transmission out from the top or bottom. ... Need some time to do "my share" in this generous offer forum members have made to coach the novice, not counting time for an outside job I have. When I've got my "stuff" in order, I'll "appear" in about two weeks and be as ready as I can be to respectfully use the help offered. The best way for an experienced mechanic to help a novice is (a) don't forget what you didn't know when you knew nothing about the stuff you know a lot about now, while, at the same time, (B) not being afraid to confess mistakes you've made; © sharing what NOT to do, which you might falsely assume "common sense" would prevent anyone from doing—like building a boat in a house. (d) Remember, not everyone has mechanical common sense when it comes to handling mechanisms that are as foreign to novices as pujagamundas are to experienced mechanics. Doing a-d, by an expert for a novice, isn't easy. That's why most instructions suck big time, from a novice's point of view. greg |
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Greg Gianas Redmond, Washington 1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong, last vehicle I'll probably ever own, purchased May 2012; first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories | |
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| williams3b54 | Sep 13 2012, 10:15 PM Post #44 |
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Oldtime I now that you can not remove a tranny or transfer case from the hole in the floor board, but I was having a hard time listening to the rederick of a hoist from above. It just does not make any sense to even suggest that approach. But to remove an engine, maybe in your garage with out an engine hoist that would work. I know you do have to remove the floor board cover and the top of the transmission shift tower to get the tranny out from under the jeep. I have done it a number of times. But a hoist overhead? Maybe a friend with a strap around the tranny helping to lower to the floor is a good idea, but a floor jack for tranny's or a motorcycle jack will do that just fine. I have done it a number of times. The other thing with the jack is you just lower the jack and roll the tranny out form under the jeep and put it on the bench and work on it. a piece of cake. I have also done it with a block of wood and a 2" X 4" and my leg to lower and install the tranny and transfer case. But a hoist on a beam? These are CJ-3B's not Cumins engines. One suggestion I can make for re-installing the the transfer case is make up some studs that will thread into the mounting holes in the back of the tranny that are long enough to let you put the transfer case up to the studs and let you align the holes in the transfer case so you can slide it onto the tranny. Or with the transmission jack bolt them together first. Also don't forget the aligment tool for the clutch plate so the front shaft on the tranny will align with the clutch plate. One last note, if there is no oil on the floor of the garage, check the tranny and transfer case. they be empty. Dick W. Spokane wa. |
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1954 CJ-3B Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest. See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954. 1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968. | |
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| Bob_webber | Sep 13 2012, 10:17 PM Post #45 |
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greg, one thing to keep in mind, especially on big projects on the jeep is, the x3 equation. if you think it will take 10 minutes, multiply by 3 and it may take 30 mins. i always prepare for this, so does the wife (especially regarding money) this will make the whole experience more enjoyable, and the job will be better and more rewarding. often taking your time while doing something will make the process go much faster. line up everything you think you will need ahead of time. gather your help ahead of time ( for assembly you will want another person helping to start bolts and alignment etc) often times having someone less experienced than you will be the best, this allows you to take the project at your own pace. if you end up with an audience of people making random suggestions trying to be the hero, stop all work completely take time with your guests go over the ideas with them and wait until they leave and you are left with your preffered helper and continue your work. at minimum make sure someone is around to call for help in an emergency(within yelling distance). now, when considering help for the project, choose someone whom you get along with very well. when working on cars emotions can tend to run very high, you want someone who will Not be telling you what to do. they can make suggestions but do not let them try to take over the show, often times people like this can compound problems and it gets worse from there. always remember that this is your jeep and you will be calling the shots. when you need guidance, the b page is full of people to make suggestions. you will find that when you are working on your jeep, if there is anyone within 50 ft of you that has ever turned a bolt on a car they seem to feel the need to rattle off the first ten things that randomly come to their head that they think could be the problem. certain projects on my jeep i do in complete solitude (wiring being one of them), but when you need help it has to be the right help otherwise it just makes things frustrating. this is some of the things i have ran into on working on my cars, i hope you find some of it helpful. Bob |
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53 3b, early cj5 frame (hurricane),2.43 ratio t case 26 tooth with 1 1/4" case (my own creation), late 60's c5 ross steering box, all range od, parts from a welder generator, and parts from about 9 different jeeps and counting. my every last penny and ounce of patients creates what we call the FrAnken B, the jeep that never was bob, north east Ohio | |
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3:40 AM Jul 11