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| Fixing a mistake; take it back or fix it | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 28 2012, 08:36 AM (735 Views) | |
| jking | Sep 28 2012, 08:36 AM Post #1 |
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I took the engire to a rebuilder to allow me time to work on the other things and to avoid mistakes like this. Sure wish I had seen this before I brought it home. ![]() I have it on a stand and it may be more work assembling my ancient lift which I think weighs more than the engine, taking it off the stand, loading it up, and taking it to the rebuilder, only to then reverse the process. (probably 5 total hours). What's involved in fixing this myself - just removing pan, removing rear cap, rotating the shaft, inserting the bolts and then the reverse. Do I need to loosen the front cap and re torque the caps in unison. What about the rear seal? Thoughts? Thanks, John |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| Rus Curtis | Sep 28 2012, 09:04 AM Post #2 |
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Oh, this looks familiar. One of the main reasons I build familiarity with how parts fit together is doing stuff like this, where I have to partially or fully disassemble 'cause I forgot something!! When the SM states assemble in reverse order, it’s not always easy to read backwards! If it were me, I’d spin the stand (oil pan up) and do like you stated. Remove the minimum amount to spin the crankshaft. If the center or front caps don’t have to be removed or loosened, I’d guess you don’t have to retorque them. If you don’t disturb the seal, then reassembling the rear cap should be uneventful. I’m sure there will be more helpful advice added. To avoid another potential clearance problem, pay close attention to the other bolt lengths. Bolt, hex. Hd. 3/8” – 24 x 1 5/32” Way back on my first engine rebuild, I used slightly longer bolts (that were readily available at the hardware store) and they were just long enough to maintain contact with the clutch friction plate. I couldn’t disengage the transmission from the engine. Since I didn’t know what I did, I let a garage handle it. They “cut” them down with a torch. No big deal right? This allowed one of those bolts to loosen and come out of the hole. This bolt knocked around between the block and crank flange for who knows how long. I found it during my most recent rebuild and there was significant damage to the rear of the block. |
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Rus Curtis Alabama '54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt" Bantam T3-C | |
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| oldtime | Sep 28 2012, 10:21 AM Post #3 |
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That's about it. Not likely. Only remove the rear bearing cap. The rear main bearing cap will need to be removed. The lower half of the rear main seal will be removed with the cap. The 2 rear bearing cap packings (rubber rods) will likely be damaged upon removal. You obviously will need to install a new tapered flywheel dowel. Note: that some cranklshafts and flywheels were modified to accept straight type dowels. The correct bolts should also be installed before re-assembly. The 4 flywheel bolts should have the heads located between the crankshaft flange and the block. Way too many people are installing them backwards. Installing the flywheel bolts backwards can cause the nuts to hit the engine block. The rubber packings will be likely be one of the biggest problems since they are often a tight fit. I suggest all gasket and seal surfaces to be solvent cleaned and apply Permatex Ultra Black or another good sealer. Please see: http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4267 |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| jking | Sep 28 2012, 10:54 AM Post #4 |
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Okay, looks like I can do this myself. The flywheel dowels - are those the two that are already pressed into the crankshaft flange, or are you speaking of something else? If so, what indicates the need for replacement? I've read that you can use sealant instead of the rubber rods - is that ok? It'll be a good chance to see how the rebuild looks - I'll post some pics when I open it up. |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| oldtime | Sep 28 2012, 11:27 AM Post #5 |
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Not pressed in. They are the special tapered bolts that are in the crank shaft drive flange. Wrong ! I mistook the rusted threads seen on the lower dowel as being broken off. Since the dowels are O.K. I suggest that you do like most people and install the 4 crankshaft bolts backwards. Be sure that you use high grade bolts with a long shoulder section and of the correct length. The clearance between the flywheel and the block is very minimal. Use a relatively thin (not too thin) nut. Make sure its a hi grade nut. That way you do not have to pull the oil pan and the rear bearing cap which at least theoretically is already properly sealed. I can supply you with new packings if you decide to put the bolts in correctly. But the packings are sometimes a very tight fit and you may need to shave / sand them to a slightly smaller diameter. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| Daryl | Sep 28 2012, 01:36 PM Post #6 |
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If you go the route with the nuts on the back, PLEASE use some blue locktight on the threads. I have had to do a complete R&R to fix bolts that have come loose! It seems the slightly smaller threaded end of the bolt going through the flywheel likes to loosen up over time. If you can find a bolt that you can cut down so that it has enough shaft with no threads into the flywheel, and just enough threads for the nut to engage, it would probably work best. |
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Lotsa Jeeps, and a few extra parts In Bonney Lake, Washington Always willing to look at a Jeep for you BEFORE you buy it to check it out. | |
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| jking | Sep 28 2012, 01:54 PM Post #7 |
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Now I'm a bit torn. I'm tempted to install the bolts backwards to avoid opening up a can of worms. On the other hand, I most likely will be in here only once considering rebuilt engine, clutch, tranny, and tc- hopefully! Installing something the wrong way seems like I might just be asking for trouble. Secondly, I feel like I need to check that oil jet diameter on the timing gear. A new timing gear was installed, he wasn't clear whether he installed a new jet or the old one - he didn't mention brazing and redrilling it. Or am I opening up a second can of worms by pulling the timing cover? Or do I just write the time off as performing my own inspection before installing it. Or perhaps more correctly, letting you guys inspect my pic's. Hmmmm. |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| oldtime | Sep 28 2012, 04:24 PM Post #8 |
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What Daryl states holds true. A long bolt shoulder that goes completely through the flywheel is much prefered. I have some narrow grade 5 lock nuts that are 3/8" 24 NF that would work well. The timing gear jet you say..... Wow that is a can of worms alright. Now you know why the best mechanics insist on doing their own work. It's the only way that one can KNOW for sure. Everything else is just here-say. Your call John. The timing gear cover itself is not a big issue. Just be sure to re-seal it similar to whats posted about the oil pan. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| jking | Sep 28 2012, 06:12 PM Post #9 |
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Rus, Daryl, and Oldtime. Thanks for the advice. I'm tending towards just opening up, fixing it the right way, and getting a good looksy while I'm in there. |
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1958 CJ3B F134 engine\Dana 25 with Spicer type axles\Dana 44 rear\T90 trans\Dana 18 transfer case. Northest Ohio | |
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| Don | Sep 28 2012, 07:22 PM Post #10 |
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After reading all the comments and your concerns,,, open it up. You'll never be able to trust it unless you know for sure what is done and what isn't. All the "investgations" are easy to do while on the stand. All are very hard to do after thee engine is installed. Take pictures, post them before closing the engine back up. The more eyes on project the better. |
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Don Norris Southeast, NC 1953 CJ3B 1959 Jeep Pickup 195? M100 trailer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The trail never ends ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If lovin' Jeeps is wrong, I don't wanta be right. | |
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