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"safest" placement of tow bar brackets?; with photos
Topic Started: Oct 4 2012, 09:15 PM (1,976 Views)
gianas
Member
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Where should brackets be mounted on the 1954, 3B bumper/frame shown in the two photos below, with the maximum-possible safety in mind?

Seems (to me) that a tow bar should be connected to the frame, not to this rivet-held bumper.

Does anyone have a photo, suggestion, or description of the safest (best) place to attach a tow bar? Don't want a loose (detached), driverless jeep behind me, lost in traffic.

Posted Image

Posted Image
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Larry (TX)
Member
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Hi Greg,

Though I do have tow bar brackets bolted to my front bumper, I normally tow the 3B on a car hauler trailer, and you're absolutely right in my opinion about securing such brackets to a bumper held to the frame with the original four rivets.

That said, before I bolted the brackets onto the bumper (using two 1/2" x 2" grade 8 bolts per bracket) centered over each frame rail, I welded lengths of 3/8" x 3" flat plate to the inside of the bumper, then bolted the flat plates to the frame (through 1/2" holes already in the frame horns) using the same size and grade bolts.

Another option would be to cut rectangulat slits in the bumper so that the approximate same size flat plates (but longer in length and rounded in shape on the exterior side) could be inserted through these slits and bolted to the frame horns. In the rounded exterior ends of the two plates, I'd suggest drilling 5/8" (min) holes in the centers of each plate to pin the *towbar arms on.

*This would be for the more common shop welded single arm per side towbar and not the commercial models, most of which (that I have seen and now own two of) require a double sided or "U" shape bracket. If you'd like, I can snap some photos of the set up on this 3B and e-mail them to you tomorrow.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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gianas
Member
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Yes, thank you, Larry for offering to take some photos, because some of the technical words you've used are still over my head. I suppose I will be accused of "overkill" when attempting to address a potential, uncommon problem, but the cliche about rather being safe than sorry is something I'm not ashamed to follow.
greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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jeeper50
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ol' skool jeeper jeff
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Renting a tow dolly trailer from uhaul is a cheap alternative to towing with a towbar.
In the land of the blind... the one eyed man is king
Texan at heart, Georgian by paycheck

'53 CJ3B, F134, 12v alternator, lockrights, Hot-Spark electronic module,11"self energizing brakes, Belleview winch, Beachwood summertop, OD color, built to honor all Veterans of this great country


Kayaks- Hobie Revo 13, Hobie Outback 12' both ready for the salt...
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Duffer
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Member
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First, let me say that is about as nice a bumper as I have ever seen if it is original which it would appear it is.

Second, and this is just my opinion, if you do just bolt to the bumper and then do pull those rivits, I think you will not be worrying too much about it because there will likely be nothing left of the Jeep anyway as something catastrophic occured.

Any easy fix to allay your concerns would be just to pop a bead on the bumper flange on the top and bottom of the frame rails. I consider the bumper to be an intregal part of the frame and as such, mine is completely boxed, along with the frame horns, and completely welded on-no rivits.
John, SW Montana

55 CJ 3B, transmake, fiberglass/aluminum tub/hood/fenders, 381 sbc, AGE M22W trans, "super" D18/Teralows & Warn OD, D44/ARB/Dutchman front & full float D44/Powrloc rear axles-4.10's, Holbrook springs, 4 wheel power discs, Saginaw PS, Warn 8274

68 CJ5, stock 225, T86AA, D18w/ Warn OD, D27A & stock D44 (heavy duty housing)-4.88's, 11" brakes, stock Ross box, Belleview 6000 (a close to stock vehicle, including the Whitco top)
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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Yes it looks to be a very nice straight bumper.
Please inspect the frame (where it attaches to the bumper) for cracks.

The frame "C" channel is composed of 3 parts.
The web (center), the upper flange and the lower flange.
Please inspect the frames lower flange in the area where it is rivotted to the bumper.
Cracks will frequently form in that area.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Rus Curtis
Member
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gianas,Oct 4 2012
08:15 PM
Please notice that the bumper is connected to the frame by only four, stock rivets: two rivets per frame section.



Gregg,
Am I seeing an additional brace across the frame between the bumper and Radiator Guard?

Actually, you have 4 rivets per frame rail (total of 8 for the entire bumper). There are two on the bottom side as well. Looking inside (where the backside of the rivets are, you’ll see all four at once). As Ken points out, you’ll want to inspect for tears around stress areas – I’d add inspecting around the spring shackle mounts as well.

To address the strength of the rivets; short of a massive catastrophic “yank” on your bumper mounts (hopefully, you'd not allow a "bubba" to attempt this), you can expect those rivets to hold up to anything considered normal to excessive strain. What’s more likely is frame or bumper failure similar to what Ken describes – in the form of a tear or noticeable bend in one or more of the connected pieces.

As it has been discussed here and in many previous posts, there are better ways to move your jeep, i.e. dolly or trailer. However, if you do flat tow, you will want the connection as close to frame rail centerline as possible. This “centerline” pull point also applies to freeing a stuck vehicle as well. The pull must be anchored at the frame rail mounts (preferably both sides at once) to distribute the force through the frame and minimize stress at any given focused point ensuring nothing is torn or bent.

My original bumper had anchor points welded across the rivets but one of the PO’s had attempted a pull (my guess was to get the jeep unstuck) using either a rope or chain at the center of the bumper, bowing it out and ruining its appearance (I think this also contributed to the torn frame rails around the spring shackle mounts also).

With a new bumper in place, IF I were to flat tow it ever again, I’d use a clamp-on tow bar that attaches just outboard of the frame rails. But for now, It will always be trailered.


Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
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As usual, the information you've all given me is invaluable, needed, and precise. I've done what two of your have asked: inspected areas where parts could be torn. Sure enough, just where indicated, there are tears (cracks, splits) on both sides, near where the shackles meet the bumper; and yes, Rus, I see there are four, not two, rivets per side (left and right) to the frame—my mistake.

Rus, to answer your question, yes, you were seeing an additional brace across the frame; it came that way to me.

Thank you, all, for the compliments regarding the bumper, but the invisible truth's the truth: Please don't think I have a perfect bumper for an original, which it is. If I were to take a photo parallel to the bumper, you'd see that it's bowed backwards toward the grill on each, outer-right and outer-left section, not unlike the front of a blunt tug boat.

Two Questions
1. Am I right to assume that when the cracks are welded that the welds should be made both above and below the cracks/splits/tears? 2. Is there a certain kind of welding material that should be used and certain kind of welding material that should NOT be used? Since my knowledge level is so low, I don't want to pay a welder to take me for a ride.

My conclusion regarding towing: If I have to tow it, this is what I'll do: If it's less than ten miles and at speeds less than 35, I'll use a tow bar; if it's more distance and at a faster speed, I'll rent a trailer.

Thank you for your care and helpful, needed thoughts and instructions.

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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oldtime
Member Avatar
MODERATOR
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The cracks should be Vee'd out.
The flange thickness is about 1/8" thick.
The crack should be narrowly Vee'd out to a depth about 3/4 of it's thickness.
Cracks should be welded on the top while using a copper backing on the bottom.
The backing prevents the molten metal from blowing through the root of the Vee.
Use a 60 or 70 series filler electrode.
Use SMAW, (stick) GMAW (mig) or even the GTAW (tig) method.

A good weld will reveal full metal penetrartion (melting) when the backing is removed and it is viewed from the bottom side.
The top side of the finished weld should have a relatively flat and uniform crown.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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gianas
Member
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Thank you, Oldtime, for the instructions for welding the cracks/tears on the metal holding my bumper. I didn't know about any of the details you described, which is why I asked, and I got precisely what I needed to get the job done right. Thanks again, Greg.

P.S. I've posted photos of the the cracks under the title "repairing common, bumper-flange cracks," for anyone who might have as little experience as I have regarding knowing where to look for cracks I never expected to see.
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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williams3b54
Williams3B54
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Greg, here I am again. Dick W.
About towing bracket placement I would suggest you check out the blog towing? thoughts? and go to the link from Lawerance on flat towing a CJ-3B.
Dick W. spokane Wa.
1954 CJ-3B
Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest.
See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954.
1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968.
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gianas
Member
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Williams, thanks for the suggestions; I already did what you suggested. As previously mentioned, I have no plans for towing the jeep more than ten miles or faster than 35 mph, ever. The tow-bar is for a potential breakdown near where I live. If I have to tow the jeep more than ten miles at a speed faster than 35, I'll rent a trailer or borrow one a friend offered. The tow-bar is sort of tow "plan B" if AAA, for some rare reason, doesn't work. Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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williams3b54
Williams3B54
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O.K. Greg, now I know your plans.
I did not know what your plans were for towing. I thought the info on the blog was good advice for any one planning on towing their highhood.
I have towed my 1968 CJ-5 across the country from Seattle to Chewelah Wa. and from Spokane to Evansville Indiana and back, but it has 3:73 gears and I removed the rear driveline, it has Warn hubs on the front too.
But I did get into a bind one time stuck between semi's in a motel parking lot and the truck drivers were still sleeping. I had to back up to get out of the parking lot, well good luck, you can not back up a flat towed jeep. I even had my wife get in the jeep and try to steer it backwards. I had to disconnect the jeep to get the u-haul backed out of between the semi's and then re-connect the jeep so we could be on our way back to Washington.
I haved towed my 1968 with my 54 CJ-3B a few blocks in my neighborhood with my tow bar, short distance and slow speed are not a problem for that kind of towing.
My tow points on the 1968 are bolted two places to the front bumper. One bolt goes into the end of the frame where the bumper bolts and the other is to the inside of the frame rail, I used grade 5 bolts and 1?4" stell for the tow bracket.
The highhood brackets are boomerang style shackles with a gr. 5 bolts out in front of the spring eye for the tow bar attatchment. My tow bar works on both jeeps. Both jeeps get pulled inline with the frame rails.
Dick W. Spokane Wa.
1954 CJ-3B
Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest.
See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954.
1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968.
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gianas
Member
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Dick, thank you for writing. Something I couldn't picture you wrote:

"One bolt goes into the end of the frame where the bumper bolts and the other is to the inside of the frame rail, I used grade 5 bolts and 1?4" stell for the tow bracket."

Can you show a photo of how a "bolt goes into the end of the frame"? My brain can't see that. Thanks. Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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oldtime
Member Avatar
MODERATOR
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As long as the bumper is still rivotted in place I don't see any problem with bolting direct onto the bumper only.
The bumper is a little stronger than the individual frame rails.

My 1962 CJ has holes in the bumper to attach an "A" frame type draw bar.
The common "A" frame type draw bar pivots up and down at those bumper brackets.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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