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| Gemmer steering?; What the heck do I have here... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 13 2012, 06:59 PM (1,780 Views) | |
| Moncheche | Dec 13 2012, 06:59 PM Post #1 |
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I don't have the standard willys gearbox with the two bushing sector shaft. I have a box marked gemmer, and the sector shaft has a gear on it. The play was terrible, so I was going for a rebuild. It's obvious that it's foreign to a 3B. Heck, this might be from an Allis Chalmers... Anyone else have a gemmer box? This might push me to replace it with something more reliable. Any upgrade suggestions? That's a lot in one post. Pics tomorrow. |
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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| div4gold | Dec 13 2012, 08:20 PM Post #2 |
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Are you talking about a steering gear box? |
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit
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| oldtime | Dec 13 2012, 08:31 PM Post #3 |
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Maybe from a Dodge M-37 ? But that would be HUGE ! |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| Ratchet | Dec 14 2012, 05:22 AM Post #4 |
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Nope, not an M37 box. They are much like the 3B box with a sector shaft (no gear) but backwards of the 3B and much larger. |
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Georgetown, IN A little less rust and a 53 CJ3B | |
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| OZ-JEEP | Dec 14 2012, 07:49 AM Post #5 |
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You could convert to a Saginaw steering system. I feel that this steering conversion and converting to 11" brakes are some of the best modifications I have done to my 54-3B.
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O.G. "OZ" Findley 1954 CJ-3B 1970 Jeepster/Commando Michigan | |
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| johnrb | Dec 14 2012, 08:09 AM Post #6 |
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Pictures might help with identification. Got any? Meanwhile, here's what Google popped up for me: Rebuild insturctions: http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/steering.htm This thread has a scan that shows Gemmer boxes in 1935-40 Willys: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485661 The first half dozen results from Google look pretty useful. Gemmer built boxes for more than two dozen car builders. Should be lots of support out there. |
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John Burch - west burbs of Chicago 1946 2A - now I have one older than me 1949 - me - no longer older than all my vehicles 1954 3B - mostly stock - fun driver and snow plowing 1957 - 6 cyl Station Wagon - hope for the future past Willys 1954 3B - no tub | 1959 3B - engine in pieces in a box past addiction - VW 1969 Bus | 1970 Westfalia Camper | 1984 Westfalia Camper | |
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| Moncheche | Dec 14 2012, 11:08 AM Post #7 |
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Thanks for the replies. I have spent hours looking for 'my' gearbox. Plenty of Gemmer out there, but... Here are the photos from yesterday. The markings are -302- -5- -B- a cross of some type, the casting number 34701, and of course, gemmer. ![]() ![]()
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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| Moncheche | Dec 14 2012, 11:15 AM Post #8 |
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![]() ![]() ![]() Now I did learn that gemmer made a 305, but nowhere did I find reference for a 302, and the two don't look alike at all. As you can see, this isn't a standard 3B box. During my internet wandering, I did learn that gemmer was used extensively on foreign cars, and on tractors, foreign and domestic. I soon as I saw 'tractor', I pictured my grandfather. He loved old tractors, and had access to more than his share. I searched hi and lo on tractor forums as well. I did check out HAMB last night too... Even strayed over to the CJ2A guys, and the military boys home. No luck. Hope someone recognizes it. |
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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| oldtime | Dec 14 2012, 11:22 AM Post #9 |
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That light duty box will never satisfy the jeeps needs. I suggest that you: Go back to the standard Ross Box or ... Scroll down to 9) Steering http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/ar/t2591.htm |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| Larry (TX) | Dec 14 2012, 11:36 AM Post #10 |
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It looks like the right time for you to locate, purchase and install a gear (you'll need the pitman arm also) from an M38A1 if you want a simple bolt-in installation with much easier steering from now on. |
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Larry Steed Pearland, Texas '53 Willys CJ3B '52 Willys M38 '86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer) M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.) M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer | |
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| Moncheche | Dec 14 2012, 05:00 PM Post #11 |
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This just confirms that this is my favorite forum! Upgrade is one of my favorite words. As much as I like stock, I truly enjoy making something better. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks guys. |
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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| Larry (TX) | Dec 14 2012, 05:51 PM Post #12 |
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Though I have the new (to me) M38A1 gearbox, I haven't installed it yet (I should have included that item in the Christmas Wish List below, but forgot to do so), so all I can speak to honestly about the jeep being much easier to steer after such an install is what I have read, and what I've heard from others. The Saginaw installation is the best steering upgrade that I know of for vintage flatfenders and one that I have actually and personally experienced, but of course that's a complete modification that takes quite a bit more time and work: (also the gear will be the easiest to find initially in most any salvage yard and parts will be more readily available for years to come). |
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Larry Steed Pearland, Texas '53 Willys CJ3B '52 Willys M38 '86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer) M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.) M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer | |
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| Moncheche | Dec 15 2012, 11:10 AM Post #13 |
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Well, after searching around for steering gears and taking all of your advice to heart, I have made the decision to do something I thought I'd never do. I'm going to go for the 'saginaw' upgrade. I have the steering gear and power steering pump from my old 99' suburban. If I am boxing in the frame and making a radical change, why not have a little power steering? I'm 1,000 miles from stock already. This is my cup of tea, and somewhere I can hear grandpa laughing. I'll post pics in my rebuild thread. Thanks again! Now to grab my tape measure. (probably should have done that first) |
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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| oldtime | Dec 15 2012, 11:39 AM Post #14 |
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Yes I agree a Saginaw modification makes perfect sense for your particular jeep. If I recall correctly yours has a 307 engine. Therefore a power saginaw system is also reasonable. That said I personally prefer the increased dependability of manual over the increased ease of power systems. Sorry but I haven't found time yet to post my version of Saginaw modification details. I'll try to finnish that portion of the 9) Steering post when I can. In the mean time take a good hard look at Oz's pics posted above. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| Moncheche | Dec 16 2012, 10:37 AM Post #15 |
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I do have v8 going back in. I have the power steering pump, the gearbox, and full sized radials, so power steering does make sense. I didn't see this coming, but it makes things interesting. |
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1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles) No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering. Major work done in the 70's following an accident. T90a trans Warn OD D44/D25 | |
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UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit 





3:46 AM Jul 11