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Gemmer steering?; What the heck do I have here...
Topic Started: Dec 13 2012, 06:59 PM (1,780 Views)
Moncheche
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I don't have the standard willys gearbox with the two bushing sector shaft. I have a box marked gemmer, and the sector shaft has a gear on it. The play was terrible, so I was going for a rebuild. It's obvious that it's foreign to a 3B. Heck, this might be from an Allis Chalmers...


Anyone else have a gemmer box? This might push me to replace it with something more reliable. Any upgrade suggestions?

That's a lot in one post.

Pics tomorrow.
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
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div4gold
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Are you talking about a steering gear box?
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now :) UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit :)
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oldtime
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Maybe from a Dodge M-37 ? But that would be HUGE !
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Ratchet
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Nope, not an M37 box. They are much like the 3B box with a sector shaft (no gear) but backwards of the 3B and much larger.
Georgetown, IN
A little less rust and a 53 CJ3B
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OZ-JEEP
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You could convert to a Saginaw steering system.
I feel that this steering conversion and converting to 11" brakes are some of the best modifications I have done to my 54-3B.

Posted Image
O.G. "OZ" Findley
1954 CJ-3B
1970 Jeepster/Commando
Michigan
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johnrb
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Pictures might help with identification.
Got any?

Meanwhile, here's what Google popped up for me:

Rebuild insturctions:
http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/steering.htm


This thread has a scan that shows Gemmer boxes in 1935-40 Willys:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485661

The first half dozen results from Google look pretty useful.
Gemmer built boxes for more than two dozen car builders.
Should be lots of support out there.
John Burch - west burbs of Chicago
1946 2A - now I have one older than me
1949 - me - no longer older than all my vehicles
1954 3B - mostly stock - fun driver and snow plowing
1957 - 6 cyl Station Wagon - hope for the future

past Willys
1954 3B - no tub | 1959 3B - engine in pieces in a box

past addiction - VW
1969 Bus | 1970 Westfalia Camper | 1984 Westfalia Camper
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Moncheche
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Thanks for the replies. I have spent hours looking for 'my' gearbox. Plenty of Gemmer out there, but...

Here are the photos from yesterday.

The markings are -302- -5- -B- a cross of some type, the casting number 34701, and of course, gemmer.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
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Moncheche
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Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image
Now I did learn that gemmer made a 305, but nowhere did I find reference for a 302, and the two don't look alike at all.

As you can see, this isn't a standard 3B box. During my internet wandering, I did learn that gemmer was used extensively on foreign cars, and on tractors, foreign and domestic. I soon as I saw 'tractor', I pictured my grandfather. He loved old tractors, and had access to more than his share. I searched hi and lo on tractor forums as well.

I did check out HAMB last night too...

Even strayed over to the CJ2A guys, and the military boys home. No luck.

Hope someone recognizes it.
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
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oldtime
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That light duty box will never satisfy the jeeps needs.
I suggest that you:
Go back to the standard Ross Box or ... Scroll down to
9) Steering

http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/ar/t2591.htm
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Larry (TX)
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It looks like the right time for you to locate, purchase and install a gear (you'll need the pitman arm also) from an M38A1 if you want a simple bolt-in installation with much easier steering from now on.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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Moncheche
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This just confirms that this is my favorite forum! Upgrade is one of my favorite words. As much as I like stock, I truly enjoy making something better. I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks guys.
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
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Larry (TX)
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Though I have the new (to me) M38A1 gearbox, I haven't installed it yet (I should have included that item in the Christmas Wish List below, but forgot to do so), so all I can speak to honestly about the jeep being much easier to steer after such an install is what I have read, and what I've heard from others.

The Saginaw installation is the best steering upgrade that I know of for vintage flatfenders and one that I have actually and personally experienced, but of course that's a complete modification that takes quite a bit more time and work: (also the gear will be the easiest to find initially in most any salvage yard and parts will be more readily available for years to come).
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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Moncheche
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Well, after searching around for steering gears and taking all of your advice to heart, I have made the decision to do something I thought I'd never do.

I'm going to go for the 'saginaw' upgrade. I have the steering gear and power steering pump from my old 99' suburban. If I am boxing in the frame and making a radical change, why not have a little power steering? I'm 1,000 miles from stock already.

This is my cup of tea, and somewhere I can hear grandpa laughing. I'll post pics in my rebuild thread.

Thanks again!


Now to grab my tape measure. (probably should have done that first)
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
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oldtime
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Yes I agree a Saginaw modification makes perfect sense for your particular jeep.
If I recall correctly yours has a 307 engine.
Therefore a power saginaw system is also reasonable.
That said I personally prefer the increased dependability of manual over the increased ease of power systems.

Sorry but I haven't found time yet to post my version of Saginaw modification details.
I'll try to finnish that portion of the 9) Steering post when I can.

In the mean time take a good hard look at Oz's pics posted above.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Moncheche
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I do have v8 going back in. I have the power steering pump, the gearbox, and full sized radials, so power steering does make sense.

I didn't see this coming, but it makes things interesting.
1957 CJ3B (29,000 miles)
No engine* waiting for the right one to come along , Hanging pedals, Hydraulic clutch, Front Disc brake upgrade, two gas tanks, Saginaw steering.

Major work done in the 70's following an accident.

T90a trans
Warn OD
D44/D25
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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