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Welding problems; pinion angle changing after tack weld
Topic Started: Jan 1 2013, 08:35 AM (704 Views)
JROD CJ53
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I have been getting my Dana44 aligned to weld new spring perches. Got it all lined with with the help of Oldtime's guidance. Tack welded in position(yoke angle at 0 degrees), took everything apart, moved the axle out to finish the weld. Welded the perches in final position, put everything back together, and my angle on my yoke was -5 degrees down towards the ground!!! Needless to say I was quite upset and frustrated at the same time.

The only thing I can think of is that the tack welds didn't hold. I'm going to cut it all out and start over, any pointers on keeping this from happening again?

What a way to end the year!! I hope everyone had a good new years eve, and a Great new year.
1953 CJ3B/F134 rebuilt with 6000 miles/ Dana 25 front, 44 rear/ T90, Spicer18/ YF 938SD/12V conversion . Tarpon Springs FL
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Bob_webber
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i would not cut everything apart just yet, springs are not an exact science when the jeep is under a load this angle changes to some degree because the springs flex.

that is just my amateur opinion but i would wait to see what others think, it may not be enough to worry about.

good luck and happy jeepin :)
53 3b, early cj5 frame (hurricane),2.43 ratio t case 26 tooth with 1 1/4" case (my own creation), late 60's c5 ross steering box, all range od, parts from a welder generator, and parts from about 9 different jeeps and counting. my every last penny and ounce of patients creates what we call the FrAnken B, the jeep that never was

bob, north east Ohio
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JROD CJ53
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I took the shackles and u bolts off and tested it and it was the same and I could tell by the angle just looking at it. It was different than where I started at. Also my drive shaft didn't line up. No matter how I tested it, it stayed at -5 degrees.
1953 CJ3B/F134 rebuilt with 6000 miles/ Dana 25 front, 44 rear/ T90, Spicer18/ YF 938SD/12V conversion . Tarpon Springs FL
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steve
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JRod , did you clamp the perches in place before welding ? when you weld two pieces together alot of times they will "pull" or shift from the continous weld process ,you need to tack in a few places preferrably opposing sides then clamp and jump weld around the piece to keep the pulling down to a minimum. thats how I do it and the pulling is kept to a minimum . Steve
54 CJ3B ~ up and running ~ Tiger Top installed
Suffern,NY
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oldtime
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Normally the spring perch wraps around the curvature of the axle shaft tube.
The only way your welds could "PULL" that much is if you initially tacked only the rearmost end (rear edge) of the spring perch.
Then one would also have to weld that same rear edge first.
Other wise the weld cannot possibly "PULL" without obviously breaking the tack welds.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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JROD CJ53
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Steve, yes I did. I had the whole assembly together as it would be if I was driving. Full load of the vehicle on the axle, spring shackles and u bolts fully tightened. We tack welded, and then removed the assembly. First jacking up and supporting with stands under the frame, removing the tires, loosening the u bolts and springs. Then removing the axle on jack stands placed on the tube, and welded the rest. Sorry to be long winded, but wanted to thru the steps I took, in case it shows a mistake.

We found the angle off when we first placed the axle back on the springs. the was also about 1 degree of difference between the 2 perches, causing play in the axle on the springs, like a chair on an uneven floor. I assumed the correction would be made once I tightened down the U bolts. The play went away but the angle of the yoke was still 5 degrees. I then replaced the tires, and put the load back on the axle, and found the same measurement.
1953 CJ3B/F134 rebuilt with 6000 miles/ Dana 25 front, 44 rear/ T90, Spicer18/ YF 938SD/12V conversion . Tarpon Springs FL
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oldtime
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I'm not sure I understand what went wrong.
Perhaps the angle finder was not squarely mounted or positioned well ???

Willys D 44 axles should be fairly cheap and not overly hard to find in usable condition.
In the meantime you could install 5* shims between the spings and the perches.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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jeepcj3b
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I agree with Old Time. You must have started with a bad reading, but I assume you checked it 6 or 12 times before you welded. It is strange though.

I would definitely do the shims unless it is really bothering you and you have an extra day to redo it.
Derek Chesterfield Va.

Trans Vintage CJ3B early tub, late frame, F134, all stock and running.

1981 CJ5 304,T-18,Scout 300 4:1 case, 44 front w/lockrite, 44 rear w/detroit.

1978 SJ
6 other various late models
M-100 Trailer
M-416 Trailer
1952 Ford 8N
1946 2A for parts
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JROD CJ53
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I just couldn't live with it, and took it all off yesterday. I knew it would be something that wasn't done correctly. I was able to take my time cutting the perches off and save them. So I'll check the angle again when I get it back together to tack weld. If needed ill buy new perches, but I put the axle on the perches again on the spring and it looks ok. no gaps that wont be filled when its tightened down. I'll make sure that everything is level, level, level and measure again probably a few more times. and double check the quality of the tack welds before releasing.
1953 CJ3B/F134 rebuilt with 6000 miles/ Dana 25 front, 44 rear/ T90, Spicer18/ YF 938SD/12V conversion . Tarpon Springs FL
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oldtime
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The universal service manual (USM) does not specify the rear pinion angle.
The USM does specify that the front castor is set at 3 degrees in order to assist the steering geometry.

Going on looks alone my 3B's Dana 44 rear pinion appears to be perfectly level at curb weight.
Going on looks alone my 3B's Dana 25 front pinion appears to be tilted upward toward the transfer case by 3 degrees.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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JROD CJ53
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That's where I'm at as well. I'm all good on the angles. I measured correctly, they just didn't stay. I know that before we welded the tack welds I measured, and it was at zero, pointed straight forward, level to the eye and the drive shaft fit. Afterwards the drive shaft had a big gap and it was tilted down. Just a mistake on my part. I'll just have to be more solid on my tacks next time. I'll be working on it in a few days and update on how it turns out. Thank you all.
1953 CJ3B/F134 rebuilt with 6000 miles/ Dana 25 front, 44 rear/ T90, Spicer18/ YF 938SD/12V conversion . Tarpon Springs FL
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Larry (TX)
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When you re-position and get each perch aligned where you want them, remember to tack both front, center, rear, and on both sides (of each perch) to the axle tubes and there should be no reason whatsoever for them to move.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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steve
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That's what I was trying to say tack weld everywhere you can when you have the rear positioned where you want it then connect the tack welds on one side then the other side and so forth ,Steve
54 CJ3B ~ up and running ~ Tiger Top installed
Suffern,NY
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