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pvc maintenance; need more detail
Topic Started: Jan 11 2013, 01:16 AM (711 Views)
gianas
Member
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Rus, I read your post on PCV problems. Sorry, part of it was a bit over my head. This is what I got: You solved the problem I have (white foam on the dip stick) by adding gasket material. How many layers did you add? I know, "enough to solve the problem," but I'm looking for a ballpark.

Second, there is discussion about checking the pcv valve. That's the part that was over my head. I don't understand what to do to ensure that the value is clean and working. The service manual isn't clear (to me) on that issue either.

Could you or someone offer a bit more detail regarding checking and cleaning the pcv valve?

Depending on what Oldtime (or someone else) says about the "cause" of the water in the sump of the oil bath, mentioned in my "head gasket" post, it's looking like the white-froth/white gunk problem I have on the dip stick MAY not be from a broken head gasket, but rather related to the gasket issue you discussed with regard to the cap for the oil filler and the pvc valve. I'm hoping that's the case, anyway.

A reputable jeep mechanic in Maple Valley (about 40 miles from me) told me (over the phone), based on how much I drive my jeep (which is 10 to 25 miles a day, and often not enough to get the engine up to full operating temperature), he believes what I've described is a condensation problem, not a head gasket problem. He said I'd know if I took the jeep out on the highway for 30 minutes: If the white gunk is gone (and I'm not blowing white smoke), chances are the problem is condensation and not a head gasket.

So, cleaning the pvc valve is now in my focus. I just don't want to screw anything up by trying to fix something I know nothing about.

Thanks

Greg

Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Rus Curtis
Member
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Greg,
I think Oldtime (and your Maple Valley mechanic) may be on the right track trying to figure out your breather water. I'd empty that out and replace with oil.

The engine creates moisture and must exhaust this through an open system (draft tube) or a closed system (Positive Crankcase Ventilation or PCV). This pressurized gas is rerouted back to the intake manifold (the fitting just under the carb on the right side of the head).

To assist the movement of this pressured gas, lines are attached from the air breather to the Oil Filler Tube (and on some valve covers). This gives the engine a source of air in case the PCV system develops a vacuum due to the manifold demand. The PCV valve ensures pressure doesn't flow the wrong way (backwards).


Many questions covered in this post (visit the posted links within too!)
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4582


Background on different valve covers and an excellent description of open and closed systems:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...topic=3931&st=0


modern PCV valves are disposable (not serviceable) and I used one of these for a long time

Original PCV valve:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=3338

Modern PCV valve:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...p?showtopic=812

I know this is a lot of reading material. The original valve is disassembled, cleaned and reassembled. A modern valve is checked by shaking. If it rattles indicating a functioning valve then reinstall. If not replace. Shake a brand new one to know what it sounds like.

Internal valve parts to go along with the SM image:

Posted Image

Hope this helps!
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
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Rus, a lot of reading is a good thing. Thank you for all the leads; I needed them and will read everything.

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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gianas
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Rus, and anyone else who cares to add, I read all that you sent. It was "another" eye opener to read that places like Walacks and Kaiser Willys sell hollow pcv valves, without containing what makes it a value.

Question: Do you or anyone else have some suggestions for how to remove and clean a pcv valve, not only the "dos" but also the "don'ts"?

(For instance, both you and Oldtime, pointed out, when cleaning the wire-mesh filter above the oil bath, DON'T use a severe solvent because it will cause the filter to rust. Sure as ___, I wouldn't have known or guessed that. As embarrassing as this is to reveal, when I replaced a bum ignition switch, I didn't know enough to, first, disconnect the battery. So when my no-longer-limber body was crunched under the steering column, with flashlights taped to this and that, I made some real sparks, just like a sparkler on the 4th of July, only much louder but just as broad a span of sparks as a sparkler. I must have knocked my head on at least three metal places getting out of there, thinking a booby trap had been tripped. You see, that's one of the reasons why it's not easy for some people to venture into the sea of auto mechanics. Old "sailors" in this skill usually have little patience for those with no "sea legs" ... which reminds me of a story, Galen can be blamed for me telling. It has to do with "sea legs" and how old sailor—or old mechanics—just can't imagine how inexperienced some people can be. Hope this gives someone a laugh. ... The first six months I was in Viet Nam (1968), I was an artillery forward observer with paratroop infantry. The last six months, I was a hunter-killer-team leader, air observer, in low-flying helicopter. This job involved using both artillery and helicopter gunships, a minigun mounted on the OH-6 Cayuse chopper, and personal weapons when needed. One day, I was ordered to use the battleship "New Jersey" to take out an NVA cave complex on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. I'd never been on a ship at sea. We landed on the monster ship with guns that shot rounds that sounded like VWs going through the air, and I was introduced to the Captain and the highest ranking enlisted sailor on the ship; I can't remember Navy ranks. I didn't even know the name for the "rock and roll" of the ship (and can't remember it now); nor had I ever experienced it. So, here I am, Mr. hot-shot, 101st Airborne Division, artillery forward observer for an entire division of artillery, standing about one foot from the Captain of the ship, while he's telling me about his ship's capabilities. The Captain is standing with his feet spread wide apart at a starboard and port angle so his face is pointed toward the bow of the pitching and rolling ship. He knows how to stand on a ship. I don't. I'm standing with my toes pointing to "port" and heels pointing "starboard." The Captain is stable. I'm not. As the ship pitches to the starboard and port, I'm fighting to keep my balance, looking like Charlie Chaplin in a comedy, but I'm not seeing it as a comedy. I'm trying to concentrate on what the Captain's telling me, but I can't stay standing straight up; I'm nearly flailing to keep standing. The Captain is looking at me too embarrassed for me to tell me how to stand on a pitching and rolling ship. The highest ranking enlisted sailor on the ship can no longer watch me make a fool of myself, so he walks up to me and shows me how to stand on a ship. ... What I'm saying is that people who live on ships can't fathom what people who have never been on a ship don't know, and probably don't want to imagine what people like me don't know about ships or auto mechanics. So, your patience has been appreciated. That story was for you, Galen, 'cause you didn't berate me for saying "too much."

I know someone will think or say, with regard to my asking for instructions for removing and cleaning the pcv value, "It's just common sense; go figure it out for yourself," but for those who would scold me for asking something so basic, you wouldn't have the faintest idea how to do my job, just like I don't have the faintest idea to do work with machines.

It's the "what-not-to-dos," which experienced people assume everyone else would know, that are what allow novices like me to ruin original parts. Making mistakes like that is intolerable. Life already makes fools of those who are supposed to be "in the know." Spent enough time in life "going looking for trouble." Now that I'm past what's called "old" and a whole lot less addicted to adrenalin, it's a much-sought joy to be prevented from screwing up something valuable.

Your instructions for flushing the cooling system, for example, were extremely considerate, vitally detailed, and much needed and may have been appreciated by more than a few, silent forum readers who don't want to reveal "novicehood" when it comes to the so-called macho work of auto mechanics.

Yes, I went to far here; I know. So blame it on Galen for giving me encouragement; he must be from Canada, where people are less uptight, more open, and less upity.

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Rus Curtis
Member
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Way to go, GALEN!! :P

Greg,
I have "an idea" of how to disassemble the valve when it's mounted on the vehicle - although I've never done it. Therefore, I'm going to return to "lurk mode" and wait to hear how someone's actually done it.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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oldtime
Member Avatar
MODERATOR
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No special instructions are required.
Just remove and dissasemble it.
As I stated once before all jeep threads are RH unless noted otherwise.
They are all RH threads.
A flare nut wrench is ideal for removing or installing the flare nut fittings.
Clean in strong solvent with a stiff toothbrush and re-assemble in the order shown.
If you want you can lightly oil it upon re-assembly.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Rus Curtis
Member
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oldtime,Jan 12 2013
04:46 PM
No special instructions are required.
Just remove and dissasemble it.
As I stated once before all jeep threads are RH unless noted otherwise.
They are all RH threads.
A flare nut wrench is ideal for removing or installing the flare nut fittings.
Clean in strong solvent with a stiff toothbrush and re-assemble in the order shown.
If you want you can lightly oil it upon re-assembly.



Ken,
If all threads are RHT (I already knew that) how do you unscrew it off the vehicle? A not so obvious step is missing.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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oldtime
Member Avatar
MODERATOR
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Here's a good pic for reference:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...wtopic=2108&hl=

Two methods for removal....

There are 2 long bolts that hold the exhaust valve / tappet cover in position.
One must remove the foreward bolt that goes through the crankcase ventilator outlet fitting.
After that the valve can be removed from the brass pipe nipple adapter.

At it's base the crankcase ventilator outlet fitting has a round cork gasket.
That gasket contact surface will need cleaning.
A new round cork gasket can be purchased or can be home-made.
A thin coat of good gasket sealer (like permatex Ultra Black) should be applied like glue to both sides upon re-assembly.

Another method is to leave the crankcase ventilator fitting in position.
Remove the 2 flare nuts at the brass "TEE" fitting.
Then remove the valve assembly from the crankcase ventilator outlet fitting.


Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Rus Curtis
Member
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oldtime,Jan 12 2013
05:21 PM
Another method is to leave the crankcase ventilator fitting in position.
Remove the 2 flare nuts at the brass "TEE" fitting.
Then remove the valve assembly from the crankcase ventilator outlet fitting.

This was my "idea" since I'd never disassembled one before!

Once the lines are off the "T" then the entire valve can be screwed off the reducer on the other side.

I'd never thought to disassemble from the valve cover side. Interesting.

Thanks, Oldtime!
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
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Question:

Can a pcv valve be plugged (or inoperable) and the engine will still idle perfectly (for a 1954 engine)?

Why this question? I have a prefect idle and don't want to dismantle the pcv system if it's not clear that it's plugged.

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rus Curtis
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Greg,
I don't think an engine can perform properly with a malfunctioning valve. Idle alone (I'm assuming by ear vs. hooking up a machine to measure rpms) isn't the best measurement on performance. But its a good "get me by"

However, base on your posts over the last week, I'm guessing you have a full plate! Can you get by for a while without servicing your valve? Yep, you bet!

Just keep it on the back burner and check it when you can.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Thanks Oldtime for the needed instructions concerning taking apart the pcv "system" and Rus for answering my other questions regarding the pcv.

greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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