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radiator removal?; with cowling
Topic Started: Jan 20 2013, 05:55 PM (1,705 Views)
gianas
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
"Only four bolts and the radiator comes off"? I don't think so My 54 has a cowling around the radiator, and the fan protrudes into the cowling. No angle I can find will allow the removal of the radiator without the cowling removed first, or so it "appears" so me, never having done anything like this before.

There are three screws on each side of the cowling. What I don't understand is that if I remove those three screws, on each side, there still seems to be a "lip" in the radiator that "houses" the cowling. In other words, the cowling appears to slip into the radiator housing. At least that's the way it looks to me.

I know this is "common sense" to all of you, but it's all new to me. I don't want to scew up anything by taking off the cowling before it "looks" like the radiator will come out.

Can someone, please tell me, if all I have to do is remove those three screws on each side of the cowling to get it off, and whether my assumption is correct that the cowling must come off before I can take the radiator out?

Right now, the radiator and cowling are "resting" (being supported by) one fan blade. That doesn't seem to be a "great" way to remove the radiator. Maybe it's the only way; I sure don't know. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Rus Curtis
Member
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Greg,
You're in luck! This topic has been covered before. I've searched using the technique described in the Sticky at the top of the post list. These came up (the ones I was looking for!):

This first link shows several images of how the radiator is fastened to the Radiator Guard (grill) by four bolts. You'll notice the shroud is connected to the radiator with 6 screws.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...topic=505&st=0&

Here's another post showing a problem with an after market Radiator Guard that doesn't have the correct radiator mounting holes. Scroll down and study the images posted showing the original mounted style.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4326

While it may not look like it would slip out easily at first, what I did long ago is this:

Drain the fluid. Remove the hoses from the radiator. Using a short screw driver, remove the 6 screws holding the shroud in place. Push it back up against the engine leaving it around the fan. Remove the 4 bolts holding the radiator to the Radiator Guard and lift it out.

If you can't get the screw driver on the lower screws holding the shroud to the radiator, undo the radiator from the Radiator Guard first, then you can slightly rotate the radiator/shroud assembly left and right around the fan and get at those lower screws off.

Install in reverse order.

Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Rus, I read what you posted, the links. They were no help regarding my situation, getting the radiator out.

Even with the shroud pushed all the way forward, and the radiator pulled all the way back toward the grill, there's about three-eights to one-half inch of "catch" that the stop cock creates on the bottom part of the shroud, thereby making it look "problematic" for pulling out the radiator.

Perhaps if I'd ever done anything like this before, I'd know what to do, but I'm not in that position.

Thanks,

greg



Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Rus Curtis
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Greg,
I forgot about the drain cock. It's been a while. What I do remember is it will come out. I pulled my radiator while the jeep was parked on the street and it was getting dark and the temp was around 20 or 30. I worked fast.

With all the shroud screws out the shroud is free to "float" around in between the radiator and the front of the engine, right? It should also be possible to rotate the shroud, to some degree, around the fan. I can't go and physically measure mine (everything is in separate piles) but in my mind I think the shroud should also be movable a little bit from side to side.

With all the bolts holding the radiator to the Radiator Guard, the radiator should also "float" around in the space between the Radiator Guard and the fan (the shroud pushed back to the engine).

Neither item should be real tight and both should have some wiggle room.

Are you able to see these two scenarios? With both items loose, turning one or both - in either the same direction or opposite directions, jiggling both of these items forward and back, I think you should be able to get the drain cock past the shroud.

As I look at the images, I notice both the bottom hose neck and the drain cock are below the shroud. You were able to maneuver the radiator hose neck up over the shroud? On that end you should be able to pull the two items together and “pivot” the opposite side away giving hopefully more clearance for the drain cock to slip up over the shroud.

I also notice the lip where the radiator attaches to the grill stands out about an inch. Have you tried to shift the radiator to the side to allow the radiator to move closer to the grill by having that lip overlap the edge of the attachment point?

Try not to think linear or that everything needs to slide in straight lines. Try to think more like jiggling the parts around using the entire area you have to move them about. Once the drain cock clears the bottom of the shroud, you may need to move one or both items back and forth to get the radiator to slide up and out.

Plugging water holes:
You can stuff paper towels in the holes for a week and not have any problems. It won't rust that bad so quickly. Or you can use tape over the holes (overlapping the strips to cover the hole) if you can get it to stick. Once you're done having fun with the radiator and you reinstall it and hook everything back up, you'll still want to fill with regular tap water and run at a warmed up operating temp to verify you're work is leak free and then drain that out before you add antifreeze. So you'll get one more flush done - removing any fresh loose rust anyways. I've only seen used engines and have never seen one rust free. I've always noticed a rust color when looking inside a block. It's the flaky stuff that comes loose and clogs your radiator that's bad! The antifreeze has rust inhibitors in it.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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gianas
Member
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Rus, I decided to get it out before reading your post, believing that there must be a trick.

For me, the trick was to get under the jeep and move the radiator and shroud on the passenger-side/shroud side until I made the stop cock "clear" the shroud. I couldn't achieve that "feat" from overhead. It helps to be looking directly at the stop cock from below so you know exactly how much space you need to move the shroud and the radiator to get the clearance needed to pull out the radiator.

Once that clearance has been achieved from underneath the jeep, I found that I still had to do what you mentioned, pull the radiator and shroud into positions that allowed me get the radiator is a position to pull it out. In the process, I bunged up (smashed) the radiators fins on one corner (lower right from the passenger's-seat point of view) with the lower-right corner (same point of view) of the sharp-cornered shroud.

It's pitch dark and below zero, but I just have to see how the radiator performs Oldtime's radiator-flow test. Hope I can get a hose to work. It's out, without too much damage. Thanks for writing.

A caution to anyone who's never done this before: If I had to do it all over again, I would also wrap masking tape, a couple times, around the fan belt, because I chewed it up a bit with the sharp edges of the shroud, never expecting that would or could happen. In short, a stock radiator and stock shroud are NOT a piece of cake for a novice to remove.

I decided that because it wasn't working well when I was standing above the radiator, I wanted to see what I would do from underneath the radiator, and that was the key, the trick, to get it out: eyeballing exactly how much space the shround and radiator had to be moved to clear the radiator' stop cock from the shroud. Finally, I've been able to offer "something" to inexperienced people like me

Greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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div4gold
Member Avatar
Member
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Can't you remove the drain cock and fan and get enough clearance?
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now :) UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit :)
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williams3b54
Williams3B54
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Greg, I may be tortally wrong but I have always been told the "drain cock" on a radiator or engine was called a "pet cock'.
I have a friend that sent his wife to the auto parts store to get him a new "pet cock" for his engine, the parts guy could not stop laughing until he got her the "pet cock" and he sent her home with the "pet cock". lol
Just a little humor for you today.
Dick W. Spokane Wa.
1954 CJ-3B
Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest.
See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954.
1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968.
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gianas
Member
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Dick, no pun intended, just used google to see how much of what you said was serious and how much was a joke: fifty fifty.
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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Rus Curtis
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Good job!
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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Bryan
Member Avatar
Member
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Maybe it was mentioned above and I just plain missed it, but I've always just removed the entire grill and radiator as one assembly.

Drain the coolant, remove the hoses, disconnect the headlight and parking light wires at the termiinal strip, then remove the 2 bolts holding the grill to the frame and the 2 bolts on each side to the front fenders. May be a couple of other small things I'm forgetting now, but it all came off pretty quick, with no busted knuckles.

Once you have the grill laying down with the radiator up, its wide open. Plus much easier to get to the fan and belt.

If you've got the radiator out, take some time to clean off the timing marks and hit the line and the pulley notch with some white paint.
1954 CJ3B...Original: F-134, T90, D18, Front and rear axles, Ross steering, Harrison heater, all body parts
Replaced parts: Carter YF938SD.
Upgrades: Front disc brakes (77 CJ5), rear 11" brakes (early 70's Wagoneer), dual master cylinder (Herm), roll bar, seat belts, custom wiring harness w/ turn signals (me), Carter glass bowl fuel filter, Tightsteer.
3rd generation of original owner
South central KY
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Rus Curtis
Member
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Bryan,
Not specifically addressed. However, your technique would produce a sub-assembly similar to some of the images on the posted links. Not a bad idea!

The beauty of this BB is the compilation of all the different techniques.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
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oldtime
Member Avatar
MODERATOR
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Forget about rust inside the engine block unless the engine is going into long term storage.
Paper towels could plug the coolant flow if not removed upon re-assembly.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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gianas
Member
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Clearly I don't know the proper way to remove the radiator. However, these are my thoughts based on Bryan's description:

If, if the designers of this jeep had reasonable maintenance in mind (not forgetting the placement of the bottom screws on the shroud), then taking the radiator out and putting it back in would be more soundly accomplished by removing the grill with the radiator and shroud attached. That method would certainly preclude the damage I did to the radiator fins (or whatever they're called) and to the fan belt with the multiple sharp edges of the shroud.

Nevertheless, I appreciate whatever input I receive that enables me to accomplish the job at hand.

greg
Greg Gianas
Redmond, Washington
1954 3B, daily driver; old, beat up but still strong,
last vehicle I'll probably ever own,
purchased May 2012;

first vehicle and jeep owned: back in 1965-66 (1965 CJ-5, Hurricane 134 engine); no better memories
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williams3b54
Williams3B54
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Greg, it was a joke. But the story about my friend sending his wife to the auto parts store is true. I can only imagine the parts guy trying to keep a straight face when a women comes in and asks for a "petcock".I have always only known that these valves were "petcocks".
Greg, go on this blog ( bulletin board) and check out the pictures about highhoods in the snow. there is three pictures of our 54 CJ-3B. Dick W. Spokane Wa.

1954 CJ-3B
Semi-modified for trail riding in the Northwest.
See photos on CJ-3B page owners photos 1954.
1968 CJ-5/1975 231 odd fire V-6/ many other mods. ordered new from Toledo 1968.
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Larry (TX)
Member
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Greg, looks like I owe you an apology regarding my statement about removing the radiator by removing the 4 mounting bolts, and disconnecting the hoses as I completely missed addressing the shroud, and yes, the assembly should lift out altogether without removing the entire grill (I just performed this job back in November when I installed one of Carl Walck's repro radiators in my '53 3B), but that too will work.

What I actually missed is the fact that the fan blade has to be removed also (in order for the shroud to clear) before the assembly will lift out. The blade is secured to the water pump pulley by four 1/4 -20 x 1/2" machine bolts (takes a 7/16" wrench). And one other fact that I should mention is that the six short sheet metal screws securing the shroud to the radiator - the top and middle screws are fairly easy to get to on the right side; the top on the left is also fairly easy, but the lower two on both sides are a real b..ch, that's why I recommend removing the whole assembly out in one fell swoop, then re-installing it the same way. The four 1/4" bolts securing the fan are way less easier to get to than those lower screws. Also, Id' recommend replacing the screws with new one's, being very sure the new screws are no longer than those being removed as if they're too long, they can easily puncture the outer cooling tubes.

Once again, sorry 'bout the confusion.
Larry Steed
Pearland, Texas
'53 Willys CJ3B
'52 Willys M38
'86 Chevy M1009 CUCV (K5 4x4 Military Blazer)
M100 1/4 ton jeep trailer
M416 1/4 ton jeep trailer (2 ea.)
M101 CDN 1/4 ton jeep trailer
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