Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Home

Welcome to the CJ-3B Bulletin Board, the discussion forums section of the website CJ3B.info. Everyone is invited to view the postings here, but you must register as a member in order to post messages. The moderator reserves the right to remove items posted. Items may be archived in the Tech Tips section of the website. If you post a tech problem, please follow up by posting the solution when it is found, as it may be useful to other readers. For forums covering other Jeep models, see the bottom of this page.

Search for keywords or phrases anywhere in the CJ-3B Bulletin Board using Google. Enter key words here.

Google
WWW CJ-3B Bulletin Board
You're currently viewing the forums as a guest. This means there are some features you can't use. If you register, you'll be able to post messages and use member-only features such as customizing your profile and sending personal messages. Registration is simple and free.


Join the CJ-3B Bulletin Board!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Can't find DJ3A brake shoes; options replasing brake shoes on 1964 DJ
Topic Started: May 21 2013, 07:33 PM (1,186 Views)
bornintheussr
Member
[ *  ]
Hey guys, I'm looking to replace or reline shoes on my 1964 DJ
Wanted to see what would be the options:

1) Replacing would be the most easy way but does anybody knows where to get them? Browsing the net for few days now it looks like there's no replacement.

2) Relining could be an option but the only service I see if from Jungle Jim and it would cost $110 per axle which looks a bit off my budget.

Does anybody knows if there's affordable relining service or maybe somebody successfully modified shoes from another car to fit DJ?

All you answers very much appreciated.
Alex

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rus Curtis
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Alex,
Don't know much about DJ's but have had a lot of success with Google:

With a "DJ3A brake shoes" search I found:

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=151299
http://www.jeepsurreygala.com/?page_id=2733
http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...topic=2675&st=0


Notice the last is right here from our BB. There is a Sticky explaining how to search within. Good luck.
Rus Curtis
Alabama
'54 CJ-3B "Green Gruntt"
Bantam T3-C
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ba25
Member Avatar
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Brake shoes ……….NAPA# TS-51**
** TS-51 is NO longer a good number.
TS-51 was an exact match for the DJ F&R,
TS-51 listed for use on 60s rambler, they now show the ts 40 for use on the rambler


TS 40 is as close to fitting as anything they have

I took a set of “take off” brake shoes to NAPA to compare with what they have available and old shoes match the NAPA part #TS 40. The only problem is the DJ manuals call for 9 x 2″ shoe, the TS 40 is a 9 x 1 3/4″ shoe. BUT I have three sets of old shoes that were removed from 3 old DJs and each set taken off were also 9 x 1 3/4″

so if you are needing brake shoes it appears you have 2 choices, use the TS 40 9 x 1 3/4″ or have your old steel re-lined at brake shop

the NAPA TS 40 lists at $29 plus $6.50 core charge
fronts
http://m.napaonline.com/Tablet/parts/PartD...TS40_0319666777
rears
http://m.napaonline.com/Tablet/parts/PartD...TS40_0396478912

Brake Shoes….NAPA TS 40 (compare to your old ones)
BA Agan

46 Bantam T3-C 2953
46 Bantam T3-C 19638 "Big Red"
49 CJ-2A 222564
51 M38 MC 28115
52 M100 285896
62 CJ5 57548-148683
64 DJ3A 8204-24210
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bornintheussr
Member
[ *  ]
Thank you guys, I will make a trip to Napa tomorrow to place an order for shoes.

- in case if I will need complete front wheel cylinders not a kit:
Napa has only kits
O'Reilley have only rear but not front
At Omix-Ada website I search by part # but it doesn't return any results

Do you know who currently have them in stock?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ba25
Member Avatar
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Might check these out,
hopefully they will help

rears advance auto
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wc...=wheel+cylinder
both L&R are the same

R Front
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wc...=wheel+cylinder

L front
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wc...part+no.+w15427

ebay rears
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-WHEEL-CYLINDE...f709937&vxp=mtr

BA Agan

46 Bantam T3-C 2953
46 Bantam T3-C 19638 "Big Red"
49 CJ-2A 222564
51 M38 MC 28115
52 M100 285896
62 CJ5 57548-148683
64 DJ3A 8204-24210
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bornintheussr
Member
[ *  ]
fantastic! thank you guys for the help.
Maybe there's a place to get new drums for DJ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SteveK
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
FYI...KW (Kaiser Willys Supply.com) has the 9X1-3/4 shoes, and the cylinders for 1" 60 degree port fronts, and 3/4" straight port rear cylinders, and cylinder kits for the others too. No 4 lug drums. Note: Free shipping with over $98 order.
SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ba25
Member Avatar
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Alex
I haven't found source for replacement drums for the early DJ

Look for drums from the following
57-68 DJ ser
69-70 DJ5-DJ6 w/9"
71 DJ5/6 w/9" brakes
53-55 willys 685 Pass
53-55 willys 675 Pass

not sure if one could swap parts from 2wd SW onto the DJs axle but will look into that swap.
I suggest we all snag every early DJ we can find to save the parts from going to scrap yard.

Bruce
BA Agan

46 Bantam T3-C 2953
46 Bantam T3-C 19638 "Big Red"
49 CJ-2A 222564
51 M38 MC 28115
52 M100 285896
62 CJ5 57548-148683
64 DJ3A 8204-24210
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ba25
Member Avatar
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Steve
not sure why yours is diff but stock wheel cyl on 55-71 DJs with 9" brakes use 13/16" in rear & 1 1/8" wheel cyl in front.

Posted Image
BA Agan

46 Bantam T3-C 2953
46 Bantam T3-C 19638 "Big Red"
49 CJ-2A 222564
51 M38 MC 28115
52 M100 285896
62 CJ5 57548-148683
64 DJ3A 8204-24210
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
This is a topic we need "Joe Friday's" help on, to ascertain just what off the shelf parts were used in the brakes.. I have had a conversation with him and he has more info in his files on just what was used from what vehicle. Between BA and Joe I think we can narrow it down to exactly just what parts for what vehicles we need.....Bruce's list is a huge start on that. Every DJ needs brake work as part of a rebuild anyhow, and it is a top priority for safety anyhow.

I agree on not letting ANY DJ stuff get scrapped. I have done my part, the next year or so it is up to you guys to buy all the cheap parts DJ's that show up on eWillys!...
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SteveK
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
I don't know how or why the 1"Frt/3/4"R cylinders are there on mine either as I have seen the manual specs too. Maybe someone changed them because of availability, or, by my calculations to gain more pressure at the cylinders than the larger ones.

The Universal listing shows the smaller cylinders AND smaller (narrower) shoes (117.8sq in) vs (132.81sq in) and yet the pressure indicted for the larger system is rated 690#???

Force(100#)/A (sq in area of cylinder) = P pressure

Given the same pedal force and Master cylinder size 1", I calculate 20%
less pressure with larger cylinders, but the manual shows higher pressure with the larger cylinders and with larger surface areas to move as well???

Maybe there is someone out there with a 'hydraulics background/expertise' than can tell us which would work better. Or maybe one of you with multiple vehicles has comparison experience to be able to share.

It would be nice to have more pressure on easier-to-find cylinders (and cheaper too), especially if it'll work better. Mechanical brakes need all the help they can get!

Note: The manual also shows Dj3A's with 13" wheels like with Alex's, but most seem to have 15", so who knows what went on way back then and why they installed what, when? Certainly makes it interesting to compare equipment and installations.

SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
If your master cylinder diameter is smaller, you will move less fluid per inch of pedal travel. As you increase the master cylinder diameter, it will take less travel to activate the same amount of braking. You can roughly correlate it to a higher gear as you increase the diameter of the master, harder on the power source.


Now stick with one master cylinder, and change the wheel cylinders instead. As you increase the diameter of the wheel cylinders, you will need more master cylinder travel to accomplish the same brake motion. So the larger wheel cylinders and smaller master cylinders will give you more braking power for a given amount of force at the pedal. Sorta like using a lower gear to climb a steeper hill in a roundabout way. If you use a ridiculous example of a .25 inch wheel cylinder compared to a 2.5 inch wheel cylinder it might become clear. The pedal will be rock hard with the tiny one, but you will have to push like crazy to get anything done. You have a far better mechanical advantage with the large wheel cylinder, and won't have to push as hard to do the same work. (Your pedal travel will be farther to fill up all that extra diameter with fluid, however, and the feel will not be so rock hard.

Larger pads give more swept area so the wider pads if you can find them should give more braking than a narrow pad. if you are having old shoes relined there are varying friction levels you can get, some are very hard and last forever but don't brake well, softer pads will stop better but wear quicker, which will probably not be a concern on our DJ's that get babied and only driven occasionally.

Hopefully I haven't confused the issue too much.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
BTW I think you have your formula wrong.


Apply 500 PSI to a WHEEL cylinder.

If it is a one square inch surface area, it will transfer 500 lbs to the brake shoe.

If it is a 2 square inch surface area piston, it will transfer 500 pounds for every square inch of surface area. 1000 lbs to the brake shoe.



The formula works backward for the master cylinder the way I understand it.

to get 500 PSI in your system.. with a one square inch master, you'd need 500 lbs at the pedal rod. To get the same pressure in the system with the two square inch piston, you need 500 lbs of pressure per square inch of piston area, which would make it 1000 lbs at the pedal.

Decrease that master cylinder to a half a square inch diameter.. Now you only need 250 lbs at the pedal to attain 500 lbs PER SQUARE INCH pressure in the system.

Class over, I'm starting to confuse myself now..

Note the above ignores totally the different pedal systems and any mechanical advantage different pedal setups may have. I believe that is why you see different PSI for 100 lbs of pedal pressure in the Willys charts. Different bellcrank lengths, different pedal lengths to their fulcrums, etc change that. That's all the old lever force vs length of the fulcrum stuff.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SteveK
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Since I'm the only one posting a formula, FYI...it is NOT my formula...but the listed "hydraulic formula for pressure"...F=A/P... Look it up! There are some indicated assumptions of constants utilized for simple comparisons.

I used the manual's "100# Pedal Force measurement", as stated, which includes the MC constant at 1" cylinder.

I agree with the fulcrum theory, as there are different 'pedal travel' indicators in the manual showing something is different there, but the KW parts catalog uses the same bellcrank part number for ALL Flat-Fender models, including Military.

I also agree about the shoe material comparisons. The harder the material the longer it lasts and resists heat...but at the expense of more wear on the drum surface.

Since 2" drums are hard to come by, I suggest to replace the pads with the softer stuff (and organic too if available), and no metalic squeaks either, like common with semi-metalic linings.

Let's face it, these are not high-speed, high-use vehicles we are talking about. There is always 'downshifting' too, to save the brakes...but that wears other parts too (like pistons and bearings)...It's all in what works for you...and that it stops when desired.

Happy Motoring!
SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bornintheussr
Member
[ *  ]
Got new brake shoes from Napa installed today, DJ brake like a baby now!

Thank you Bruce, if not you I probably would be paying 3x $$ to Jungle Jim and waiting for weeks to get old once relined.
Just in case I ordered another set from Napa to have one extra pair of shoes in case if they will run out of this part in the future.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create your own social network with a free forum.
Learn More · Register Now
« Previous Topic · DJ-3A Dispatcher Posts · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Other Willys Jeep forums:

The CJ-2A Page has a CJ-2A Message Board.
There is also a CJ-3A Page Forum.
For CJ-5 and Dauntless V6 postings, see the Early CJ-5 Bulletin Board.
The Old Willys Forum is dedicated to wagons and pickups.
Surrey Gala and Dispatcher Jeeps are under DJ-3A Dispatcher Posts.
The M38/M38A1/M606 Preservation Group has a forum.
For other CJ and military Jeeps, see the g503 Message Boards.
See the Forward Forum for Forward Control Jeeps.
To post ads for other Willys parts or Jeeps, see the WillysTech Buy/Sell/Swap Message Board.
For tech problems with other Willys models, try the WillysTech e-mail list.
The Bantam Trailer forum covers Jeep trailers.