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Continued Carburetor Problems; Correct Rebuilt Carb, STILL hesitates!!
Topic Started: Sep 4 2013, 09:29 AM (713 Views)
RMinPA
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Please chime in with advice if you have worked through this sort of situation.

Current symptons:
Idles rough.
Must extend Choke 2" to get down the road at all.
If you hit the accelerator hard it bogs down but if you apply foot pressure gradually the car will slowly accelerate.

What has been done:
Fuel pump was replaced during the rebuild. Produces 8# of pressure and, per Carl Walck, spacer washers were added.
Purchased a used (but correct) carb that performed the same.
Got a rebuild kit from the Carburetor Shop that was professionally installed. No improvement.
Had an outside Mechanic with Carburetor experience work on it and he believes that all the settings are correct.

Observations:
Lower throttle shaft in carb has play in it as if the hole is oversized or the shaft is too thin. This may be sucking air and might be causing part of the problem but does not seem drastic enough to be the biggest culprit.
The outside mechanic has had good looking carburetor castings that were rotten from the factory and wonders if this is the case. This one was in the inventory of a liquidated speed shop.

WHAT would you do next if you were facing this problem?

Thanks!
Rich Meyer
1962 CJ-3B Ser#57348 88612. Restoration finished 9/6/2013 to stock with factory optional wheels/tires and heater. Engine#807895
2007 JKU Rubicon on 37's, 4 1/2" Lift, 5.13s, etc.
Now in Rockford IL
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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Current symptons:
Idles rough.
= ignition and or carburetion concerns.
Must extend Choke 2" to get down the road at all. Seems like choke valve is nearly closed.
If you hit the accelerator hard it bogs down but if you apply foot pressure gradually the car will slowly accelerate.
Indicates that accelerator pump is functional.
Causes too much gasoline to enter without proportioned air thus creating the stumble.

Without direct observation I'm only guessing that it has a massive leakage of air intake at the throttle body.
That will allow engine to suck excessive air instead of sucking in the metered fuel charge.
Choking only serves to cut off the air supply and thereby it increases suction of gasoline from the well.
With choke valve closed or partly closed gasoline is being sucked up from the well.
But gasoline is not correctly metered (mixed) because the air supply is greatly reduced.
So in effect you are operating the engine under extremely rich conditions.
Rich meaning that the gasoline to air ratio is way too high.
That condition causes incomplete combustion of the hydrocarbon molecules.
That will cause the spark plugs to look very sooty / black.


Please observe plugs and detail your findings.
Operate engine as lean as possible (choke in) then spray ether at the throttle shaft.
Detail observed results.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Bob
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Bob
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I think you may have the carb sucking in air as old time suggested, but it seems to me like you have way too much fuel pressure too. Everyone I know that has added a fuel pressure regulator swears 2-4 lbs is what they like.
Bob
1953 CJ3B
1965(?) CJ5
1949 Jeepster
1947 Cj2A
2004 Kubota l3400
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RMinPA
Member
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Thank you to both of you. I really appreciate it.
I am passing your posts on to my restorer. There's a geographic challenge since I relocated to Illinois during this project and Tom and my Willys are back in Pennsylvania.
I will post responses or perhaps Tom will directly.

Just learned that there IS a pressure regulator set at 3# on it.
Rich Meyer
1962 CJ-3B Ser#57348 88612. Restoration finished 9/6/2013 to stock with factory optional wheels/tires and heater. Engine#807895
2007 JKU Rubicon on 37's, 4 1/2" Lift, 5.13s, etc.
Now in Rockford IL
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spm1us
Member
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I have always found that 75% of the time it is an electrical problem and the other 25% it is fuel related. The 3# fuel pressure is great - do you have the gas tank vented? Do you have a fuel filter that might be partially plugged not allowing the volume needed to pass through - there is a significant difference between pressure and volume. Have you verified that the condenser is good in the distributor - there has been a rash of condenser problems as of late. Try spraying some starting fluid around the throttle shaft and see if the engine RPM increases. Your restorer should be able to diagnose and fix the problem as these Willys Jeeps are very primitive as far as the technology goes - what does he restore that he hasn't been able to ascertain and repair the problem? You may also have plugged fuel passages, in the carb, you installed on your Jeep. You can not get the good Carb Cleaner anymore so I would suggest soaking in Lacquer Thinner or MEK - some folks use a bathroom cleaner from the Dollar Store caled "The Works", but it contains a mild acid and you don't want to leave it soaking very long. Some folks swear by boiling the carb body/casting in Simple Green cleaner,too. Has the restorer verified that all the passages are clear by blowing compressed air through them? You may have gotten another bad carb from the Speed Shop. If all else fails, send a known good core to National Carburetor here in Jacksonville, FL - their website is: http://www.nationalcarburetors.com/. They are known for doing good work and can address almost any issue found on an old carburetor. I would positively eliminate any possible electrical issue 1st though. Good Luck with your project, Sam Michael Jr, Jax, FL
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RMinPA
Member
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Thanks for the great list of things to try. If this thing doesn't get running and shipped soon the next symptons will be MINE.
Rich Meyer
1962 CJ-3B Ser#57348 88612. Restoration finished 9/6/2013 to stock with factory optional wheels/tires and heater. Engine#807895
2007 JKU Rubicon on 37's, 4 1/2" Lift, 5.13s, etc.
Now in Rockford IL
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spm1us
Member
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As a follow-up, a lot of success has been had in using good 'ol Pine-Sol cleaner at a 2:1 ratio with very hot water in a plastic tub big enough to submerge the entire carburetor body castings. This will usually clean and degrease most, if not all, varnish and dirt. Just google "best carburetor cleaner" and view the results. Best part it is biodegradable and can be re-used. I know Costco, Sam's, etc have it in very large containers at very reasonable prices. If you have access to an Ultrasonic cleaner, try the Pine-Sol with the U/S cleaner for best results. Good Luck, Sam
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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Yes Sam is correct.
Any and all electrical concerns need bee addressed before blaming the carburetor.
That is considered as standard tune-up procedure and I should not take it for granted that everyone knows that as fact.
I did not mention the possability of carburetor metering orfice restrictions because I must take it for granted that the rebuilder knows his trade.

If you must choke then excess fuel pump pressure seems likely to be a mute point.
Unless of course the new fuel pump is not producing correct volume.
Seems unlikely.

Again please first verify ignition tune -up according to Willys standard tune-up procedure.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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RMinPA
Member
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Running perfectly!Tom just called and the Willys has had about 25 trouble-free miles put on it.

Here's what they did:
1. Swapped in the Metering Rod from the (wrong) carb that came with the Jeep from the PO. This cleared up most of the hesitation.
2. Removed the idle screw and shot air into the hole, reinstalled idle screw.

Thank you all for your help and suggestions.

Bummer my "B" won't be out here in time for the MW Willys Reunion. Will be there next year!
Rich Meyer
1962 CJ-3B Ser#57348 88612. Restoration finished 9/6/2013 to stock with factory optional wheels/tires and heater. Engine#807895
2007 JKU Rubicon on 37's, 4 1/2" Lift, 5.13s, etc.
Now in Rockford IL
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oldtime
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MODERATOR
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O.K. Rich,
Thanks for the good news update.
We're all hoping this continues to function.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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Paul
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I had the same problem with my YF 938SD until I measured both the metering rod and jet, comparing against that in the original YF I have kept. I found that those supplied in the rebuild kit were the wrong sizes - the rod too large and the jet too small. Swapping out with the originals made all the difference. I found this odd as the rebuild kit was specifically for the YF and from a Jeep parts supplier.
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