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| T96 transmission; HELP | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 20 2013, 11:34 PM (2,498 Views) | |
| PapaC | Nov 20 2013, 11:34 PM Post #1 |
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Papac
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I took the top cover off of the three T96 transmissions that I have. Of course I didn't get lucky and none of the extra gears I have match these transmissions. The "first-reverse" sliding gear that was actually on the dj is showing quite a bit or wear![]() The second t96, also a side shift is not quite as bad wear wise but there is some chips at the edges of the teeth ![]() The third transmission is a top loader shift t96 transmission. Here's the same gear on it also showing wear ![]() I do know the two side shift transmissions will shift out by hand. Assuming the top shift will too but have never had the shifter on it. Here's my question I'm definitely going to take the transmissions apart and put new seals in one and look for other things that might be excessively wore out. Them I'll 'try' to use the best parts to build one back. Is it feasible to lightly file and polish the chips on the best of these gears.....or do they definitely need replacing. I'm going to have some more questions concerning these oddball (as I've found) t96's but this seemed like a good one to start with Thanks |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| oldtime | Nov 21 2013, 11:16 AM Post #2 |
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Lot's of Borg Warner experience here but I'm not directly familiar with the T96. It's fairly common to see that type of wear on an unsynchronized sliding gear. The wear patterns are usually observed in two distinct forms. Chipping and or smearing of the leading tooth contact areas. (tooth edges) Chipping typically removes small and irregular shaped fragments. Smearing apears that tooth slightly extends beyond it's normal size and shape. Chipping implies that the tooth is too hard. Smearing implies that the tooth is too soft. When abused the gear teeth should ideally indicate both conditions. I suggest that you grind away any signs of smearing but do not grind nor smooth out the chipped areas. Not a big demand for T96 parts so you might find some NOS parts available on eBay. I've often seen T98 parts in my eBay searches. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| PapaC | Nov 21 2013, 02:21 PM Post #3 |
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Papac
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Thanks Oldtime, your comments as always are appreciated and verify what I was thinking. I should have mentioned that I knew enough not to completely grind out the chips other than to smooth over any burrs that may have been left behind. My next questions 'were' going to be about the speedometer cable itself for the transmission and the driven gear that it plugs into. I think though that I've managed to find my answer. The cable itself has a oddball looking end on it and is apparently not available anywhere except for used...or nos it a person were to get lucky. The same thing applies to the driven gear. My initial search on ebay was for 'willys t96 and not very productive at all. Modified to Borg Warner t96 was much more productive and eased my fears that I could be able to obtain parts using this route. My next question 'was' going to be about adding a overdrive to the tranny but my reasearch now seems to indicate I believe it to be possible, by shortening the driveshaft and if I could obtain the additional pieces to make it function .....which I'm still researching. Now, here's what I know I still need at a minimum for my drivetrain. 1. A clutch 2. I'm not happy with my pressure plate, especially due to the way the brackets that bolt it on have been chewed up by a rouge piece of metal 3. The driven gear the cable plugs into (I've got the bolt and keeper that hold it in place 4. Possibly a replacement gear and or other parts 5. The speedometer cable itself Optional would be the overdrive unit itself, and everything needed to make it work I haven't and can't completely run the numbers but this obviously adds up to a pretty good chunk of change And then I found this ebay item number 181258929399 Which seems to kill more than two birds with one stone Keeping in mind that I definitely need a clutch, pressure plate, cable, and driven gears the price seems reasonable and I've sent him a message asking for a shipping quote. I've already looked at everything else he was selling and has sold and keeping that in mind I 'think ' this would be a worthwhile investment. Thank you Charles (interesting fact, to me anyway). The truck I first learned to drive was a old column shift chevrolet three speed. The shifter itself had been broken, A hole had been cut in the floor, and two seperate rods stuck out that were attached to the transmission levers themselves. Reverse and first was up and down on one rod and you had to jiggle the other rod back and forth for second and third! Honestly, I learned to shift that thing like nobodies business and NEVER had to worry about anyone stealing it!!!!) |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Nov 21 2013, 06:49 PM Post #4 |
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PapaC, you are the luckiest guy I've ever seen. You must be a 'parts magnet'. Just two days ago I was searching for an overdrive T-96 transmission and didn't see that one, or it would be gone now. I can't compete with your parts gathering and travel ability, so I lose. Timing is everything, and you are spot on. Do you play the PowerBall too? |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Nov 21 2013, 07:49 PM Post #5 |
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Papac
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do you play the powerball too? I tried it a couple of times but didn't win anything |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Nov 21 2013, 07:54 PM Post #6 |
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Send me an e-mail if you decide not to buy it. I have a cousin two hours away from it. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Nov 22 2013, 11:32 PM Post #7 |
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Papac
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Well still not sure what I got myself into but I purchased the dang thing and pretty sure he's gonna throw in the flywheel. I just got off of the phone with the owner and he said he's been setting on it for FIFTEEN years in storage. He said that actually it was Wayyyy to nice a car for what he had originally purchased it for back in the day. He said he RACED Henry J's and that's why he originally purchased the car. I'll have to ask him again the name of the sponsors he gave me. He said after purchasing they STRIPPED it down including motor, trans, etc and made a race car out of it. The motor and fenders etc. he is selling came off of the same car at the same time and has also been in storage the whole time. He also said that before they removed it everything was working perfectly. He seemed like a really nice guy and I'm guessing our conversation lasted thirty minutes or so. For the first time on anything I've ever done I'm documenting Everything. I don't know the original story of my dispatcher but the parts on it are definitely gonna have a colorful history from all over the country. Sorry Steve, didn't mean to get you excited. If you want I'll help you look for another one....I'm SURE they're out there!! Ps. He never said it.... But I'm pretty sure that before he bought the car iit was owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Nov 23 2013, 12:30 AM Post #8 |
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Papac
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Found it. The guys race car . JEB Four Racing is a nationally ranked drag racing team well-known for their unique Top Sportsman class Super Henry J, racing over 210 MPH in the quarter mile. They belong to the NHRA Northeast Division, and race across the eastern United States. In 2012, expert teamwork, 1650 hp and a bit of luck resulted in a fantastic season. They finished sixth in Division 1 -- the sixth straight year they've been in the top 10. They also ran their fastest 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile times ever in 2012. Did a search for Henry J race car on google, went to images and there it was. http://us.kaeser.com/About_us/Sponsorships...default_new.asp |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Nov 23 2013, 02:17 AM Post #9 |
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Papac
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Ok that's enough of that and back to business. Now I'm trying to learn about a relay, cable , kickdown switch and wiring. HELP |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Nov 23 2013, 01:22 PM Post #10 |
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Papac
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I'm starting to figure it out and I found a preliminary wiring diagram. It doesn't look any harder than wiring the entire jeep itself will be. The main thing I'll have to get will be a heavy duty relay, (I've got some warn winch relays that may work and I'm also wondering if a starter relay will work. I'll also need a kickdown or lockout switch. To make it work as the factory intended I'm also going to have to design a bracket so that I can mount it where it will engage or disengage when the accelerator is fully depressed. Alternately a person could install a simple switch that could be engaged or disengaged by hand. Since some designs are slightly different I won't know everything for sure until it comes in. Other things I learned is you better Not shift into reverse with the overdrive engaged because it will instantly trash the overdrive. Something about it being freewheeling would make this a bad bad thing. Thinking that's a pretty good thing to know in advance. Also it said not to fill the overdrive unit itself with 90 weight gear oil because it was too heavy. What I read said to use 30 or 40 weight straight motor oil. This won't be original to a dj but I'll try to do a neat enough job to make it look like a customer requested factory installed option with me being in this case both the customer and the factory. Interesting note: I went back through my parts and down in a bucket of bolts actuall found a full set of t96 driven gears for the speedometer cable. I also learned that a cable 'could' be modified to work by carefully refrabracating one and using the end that plugs into the transmission off of a old one. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| binthere | Nov 23 2013, 05:39 PM Post #11 |
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Hi PapaC Been following your posts, and see you are doing great work!! It looks like you do need another contact or two! If you google "Kaiser Willys" you can order a free catalouge from them. I see they have some 6v overdrive stuff. Another good one is the Jeepsterman. Just google that and you will get thier information. If you phone them, ask for Shelly. She always sounds gruff, but has always treated me right. I'm not sure what all she carries, but specializes in old jeepsters for sure!! Once you get on the site, you can go to the parts section and look around>
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somedays your the windsheild--somedays your the bug Chuck - Cherryville B.C. Canada 53 3b [0IIIII0] stock except for wheel's and seats " a fistfull of dollars" 49 willys jeepster " a few dollars more" and a few other retirement toys | |
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| SteveK | Nov 24 2013, 09:28 AM Post #12 |
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PapaC, when I was looking around for overdrives, I saw a site that said "Do Not use synthetic oil in an overdrive, use regular 90 weight". It is apparent they are sensitive to proper lubrication, so more research might be in order BEFORE you start use. I didn't see anything about the 30 weight oil use. I also was going to suggest KaiserWillysSupply.com as I have seen all the parts you need, including kickdown accelerator switch, linkage, relays, and solenoids, and internal parts too if discovered needed, to do it easy and like factory for proper operation. Good Luck. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Nov 24 2013, 02:37 PM Post #13 |
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Papac
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Thanks for the tips!!! Here's where I got my information about the oil http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/trans/Borg-Wa...drive/index.htm http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/trans/Borg-Wa...Page_19_jpg.jpg Can anyone verify the proper oil to use? I do have a extremly OLD unopened 5 gal bucket of 90 weight gear oil that I got out of a tractor shed somewhere and have been holding on to. Ps what is the definition of "hypoid axle type", the one it said definitely not to use |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Nov 25 2013, 08:39 AM Post #14 |
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FYI... What is Hypoid? The term "hypoid" has more to do with the construction of engine gears than it does with oil. Early automotive engineering involved gears that meshed with each other straight on. When you think of gears, this flat face-to-face gear teeth approach is what we learned as kids in cartoons and marketing images of big machinery. However, automotive design soon figured out this gear approach was inefficient and also very loud when running. Thus, the "hypoid" design was invented which basically has two gears shaped like Christmas trees mesh with each other at 90 degree angles or similar. The hypoid approach reduced gear-meshing noise and it allowed greater torque pressure for stronger drive. The design was so successful every car and vehicle today uses it as a standard transmission design. Due to the higher pressure on gears as a result, the lubrication needed has to include ingredients to provide more protection for the gears. This special gear oil is designed not to deconstruct under higher pressure. Gear Oil in General Gearbox oil or fluid is used in all sorts of vehicles. It provides lubrication in transmissions, wheel axle differentials and other parts of machinery. The viscosity level on gear oil is much higher than normal engine oil to make sure gears don't grind against each other. Over time, if not cleaned out and flushed, old gear oil can turn to sludge and will slow down gear spin, thus reducing engine performance. This is why transmission fluid change is recommended regularly along with engine oil changes. Read more: http://www.ehow.com/about_5729620_hypoid-g...l#ixzz2lfFYDBcc |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Nov 28 2013, 11:30 AM Post #15 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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From the Early CJ5 site if anyone is looking for one : http://york.craigslist.org/pts/4217633450.html Jeepster tranny with overdrive. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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