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DJ3A DISPATCHER CONVERTIBLE; RESEARCH THREAD
Topic Started: Dec 6 2013, 05:39 PM (10,282 Views)
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Question #2. (i just thought of it)

Quote:
 
AMA Specifications Catalog : This consists of a total of 32 pages , each is 8.5 x 11 . Features specifications for the DJ-3A Dispatcher Series 56 , and CJ-3B , CJ-5 , CJ-6 Universal Jeep Series 57 . It was originally printed by the AMA , Automobile Manufacturers Association Detroit . It includes detailed specifications that appear in no other factory publications . Includes : General Specifications , Engine - Mechanical , Electrical , Drive Units , Brakes , Front Suspension & Steering , Rear Suspension , Body Dimensions , Body & Car - General , Weights . Very detailed information and great for restoration , service and repair , general reference , etc . This is an exact reproduction and was originally printed by the AMA in very limited quantities and distributed to automobile factory executives and engineers and members of the press , but not to the general public or car dealers . This item is AutoLit Part #a606-6NWGC4.


That got confusing when I realized I didn't know why they were referencing a dispatcher as a series 56 and the CJ's as series 57???
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Probably just referencing the first two digits of the serial number prefix..
56337 would be a 56 series.....

Just more confusion to add to the pot. :o :blink: :D
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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Joe Friday
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Those sheets may have been included in the AMA book, but the actual sheets were parts of the Willys commercial databook. Bruce Anderson provided his to scan a few years ago. It was a binder about 3 inches thick.
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Joe. Do you know if these scans are posted online?

__________________________________________

I do have more questions as follows in wondering what this list is actually saying.


As with lots of Lists the one in the AMA bulletin, perhaps due to its date? appears to be incomplete as it does not list a gala or surrey as one of the models. In this light I am assuming its a early list before their time?

It is unknown to me what the D1 through D5 codes actually refer to other than on this list.

_______________________________

Series 56

DJ-3A Jeep Dispatcher

56337 D1 Basic
56337 D2 Canvas Top
56337 D3 Soft Top
56337 D4 Hard Top
56437 D5 Stripped Chassis

_________________________________

56337 SOFT TOP.

At this point in time I am sure I can identify a DJ3A (soft top) fastback convertible by a list of certain characteristics that we have observed as being correct even if the convertible parts such as brackets, bows, and top have been removed and discarded as I suspect most have over time

1. A full back panel instead of a tailgate

2. A short or maybe better said, a low profile windshield with a pattern of holes as see on this thread for the turn fasteners that fasten the soft top to the windshield frame

3. Channel brackets on each side of the windshield for the rope that is sewn into the doors to attach to.

4. Properly placed holes in the tub (as seen on this thread) for the top bow bracket to fasten to

5. Properly placed holes in the tub for the 6 rod retainer brackets for the top (two brackets each back quarter, and a bracket for each side of the back panel.

6. Holes properly in place in the tub for the additional door hardware as seen on this thread, including the two brackets fastened to each side of the windshield in addition to the rope channel (#3 on this list)

7. A total absence of the four top bow sockets as used on the Surrey, CJ models, and on high windshield DJ models

this list may be incomplete but I tried to be thorough about the convertible as much as I could. Now to clarify something lets see the original AMA list, or as informed by Joe in the previous post the list from the Willys Commercial Data Book.

next post........
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Series 56

DJ-3A Jeep Dispatcher

56337 D1 Basic
56337 D2 Canvas Top
56337 D3 Soft Top
56337 D4 Hard Top
56437 D5 Stripped Chassis

Evidence proves that the 56337 D2 Canvas Top came in at least two versions. Full Canvas and Half Canvas Top.....even without the top or hardware couldn't be mistaken as a possible convertible

The Hard Top model is easy as it has a completely different style of windshield and other identifying features.....(could never be mistaken for a possible convertible)

FBill has provided a very good description and possible uses for the 56437 D5 stripped chassis. (Those could never be mistaken as a possible convertible)

My previous post has pointed out the known characteristics of the 56337 D3 Soft Top

AND....even though the Surreys and Galas have the same back panel as the convertible the holes in the tub, tall windshield along with its characteristics, and front and rear top bow brackets incorporated into the tub itself definitely differentantes it from the soft top convertible

Which brings me to the question???

WHAT characteristics does the 56337 D1 Basic Model have....or more importantly what does it NOT have as identifiers???

In my mind I would think, considering the era, and the uses, buying a basic model might not have been out of the question. Or was it.

Did the basic model have a tailgate, or solid back panel. Seems to me, even if I was buying a basic model I'd want a tailgate for hauling stuff around and easy loading and unloading sooo...I'd think tailgate

Did the basic have a tall windshield, short windshield....or NO windshield such as a drawing of one that I saw a picture of (with Willys you just can't really trust drawings)

Wouldn't it make more sense if the basic at least had all around bow brackets in case you did want to add a top later???

What holes would have been pre drilled in the basic if any?


I'd like to make an argument that a basic model was in fact a stripped down more popular tailgate model...no heater....no wipers....maybe not even a windshield..no extras...no bows or top but to save time and money and make more useful, especially if you wanted to upgrade it later) still have the top bow pockets that were so popular and being stamped out on every single other jeep.

IF my argument proves to hold water than a jeep with the convertible soft top features could NEVER be mistaken as being a former basic model.

I know of less than ten jeeps that have the described identifying convertible characteristics. IF some of these are indeed 'basic models' that list.....of TRUE convertible survivors becomes MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller. ALMOST to the point of EXTINCTION!!!!!

charles tate
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
*the dj3a fastback convertible windshield as seen in this thread obtained its basic frame structure and roots from the CJ3B four wheel drive model. However due to necessity subtle changes were made in said frame as it was being manufactured. The channel across the front was never installed. Instead holes were drilled which were appropriate for single machine nut shanked, common sense or turn fasteners.

The reason being was the concept that for the jeep to ever be advertised as a true convertible it would have to be able to fold back in some way similar to other convertibles of the day.

While the CJ3B windshield was a perfect match for the low profile DJ design wanted on something that could be described as the 'worlds most inexpensive sports car' engineers immediately noticed a problem. They had a little bit of help too.

As TOM McCAHILL, a 1950's Automobile Critic wrote about his early 3B in Mechanics Illustrated, February, 1954 in an article under the title, (M1 Tests, The New Jeep)...

."the top I feel must have been designed by a army straight jacket case....To get this silly half cover down you have to have three less tools than they have in the General Motors Experimental lab". !!!

It should be noted that he only had the four piece half cab that was described as.....THE EASY ONE

In fact, as the original installation instructions indicate....as seen here

http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Photos/Sof...nstructions.gif






Read that and it becomes simple. Not only would it have been hard, it would have been IMPOSSIBLE to have a folding back convertible top that you FIRST had to lay backwards over the hood to properly affix the cover to the windshield channel.

That's right, not hard.....IMPOSSIBLE!!!



To date there is absolutely no evidence of ANY SURVIVING DJ's....convertible or not... that was sold to the public...with a 3b type windshield frame with its original affixed channel. That would have been a waste of time and dollars because it simply wouldn't have worked for the application intended.



Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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Joe Friday
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
The commercial databook is not posted online but if you want to PM me your address I will try to find the time to burn you a copy.
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
That's a unbelievable offer Joe, I sent you a pm.

Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
PapaC,Jan 18 2014
01:26 AM
That's a unbelievable offer Joe, I sent you a pm.

"Joe" is a good man to have on your side, Charles. He has access to some amazing research info and is a jeep guy thru and thru.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
PapaC,Jan 3 2014
05:45 PM


Posted Image


That's 56337 20394.   Paint code 78  Trim 164

As seen here on page 12

http://www.mninter.net/~molsen/jeep/VIN/Ve...ntification.pdf

I can now verify that paint code 78, pre 1971, is indeed correct for the color of Presidential Red which is the true color of this Willys despite my poor picture.


Posted Image


I'm still don't know the meaning of the Trim number or what it is actually referring to but I'm 'trying' to figure it out. B)


More information here

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Paint2.html

EDIT: the second site which I 'should' have found first indicated that Trim 164 'may' be a custom Red Trim.

Which leads me to another question to explore .


Why would a jeep that is already 'red' have a need for 'custom red trim' and.....exactly 'what' parts of the jeep are being referred to on the 'Trim' part of the tag???



Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
It is my understanding that
trim refers to upholstery... but I could be wrong and in this case it seems wrong to call it red...?? as the top is white and the seats are...??

59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
F Bill,Jan 28 2014
01:16 PM
It is my understanding that
trim  refers to upholstery... but I could be wrong and in this case it seems wrong to call it red...?? as the top is white and the seats are...??

The correct seats were MIA as far as I know. The only seat he had with the jeep was a narrow one setting on the floor beside it. However that one seat was black.

Nothing else other than the tub and firewall, (normal stuff) was red

(1) I only know if 'three' surviving DJ,s with an actual paint and trim tag. The Red Convertible pictured

(2) I 'believe' BA's Surrey had a paint and trim tag

(3) and then there's this 63 dj hardtop with a intact trim tag as noted here


http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=2675

Quote from Oldtime and Alex on the same thread

Quote:
 
OLDTIME:  Welcome to the Bulletin Board {DJ forum}
Later parts catalogs shows trim option 164 being associated only with code number N 35 metallic amber




Quote:
 
ALEX:  I found a chart on a link on an ECJ5 thread, and it referred to N-35 as an "Amber metallic/Macombo Grain Combination".

I assume the Macombo Grain vinyl is the upholstery color - is that a light, white-ish, possibly creamy color?

Thanks.


Which means that trim 164 equals associated with code number N35 which means metallic amber and there's another chart that specifically identifies N35 as "Amber metallic/Macombo Grain"


___________________________________________________

If that is so then ATTENTION MODERATORS.

http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/Paint2.html

The information on this page that describes TRIM 164 as 'MAY BE CUSTOM RED' needs more investigation as that might be incorrect.


_____________________________________________



So later today it's back off to see if I can find those charts and verify this.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
The jeep associated with that trim tag appears to have a brown passenger seat and a custom seat cover on the driver's seat. Definitely not red. Follow the links for the 1962 Ansul Fire jeep.

Derek may not be reading every post here so you might want to PM him with your question.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
F Bill,Jan 28 2014
05:43 PM
The jeep associated with that trim tag appears to have a brown passenger seat and a custom seat cover on the driver's seat. Definitely not red. Follow the links for the 1962 Ansul Fire jeep.

Derek may not be reading every post here so you might want to PM him with your question.

Bill, at your suggestion I forwarded what I had put together to Derrick about the trim code.

However so far I've been unable to locate the referenced charts. I am by now pretty sure your right about the trim being related to seat upholstery.

I dropped my dad-gummed phone on concrete the other day and now searching for anything is looking through a spiderweb of broken glass. Can't do it for too long at a time.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Joe Friday,Jan 17 2014
08:59 AM
The commercial databook is not posted online but if you want to PM me your address I will try to find the time to burn you a copy.

Thanks Joe, more than I know how to say. The commercial data disc arrived today . I'm going to dig out my OLD windows 'me' computer out of the attic and see if I can get it to boot up. It might not be so snazzy on the internet anymore but I'm sure it will still let me read the disc!!

Funny. I got 'another disc in the mail today from the great state of Texas, hidden inside a box with a drivers side ALA taillight with additional pictures of the red convertible! As soon as I figure it out I'll post some of them here!







Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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Other Willys Jeep forums:

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For CJ-5 and Dauntless V6 postings, see the Early CJ-5 Bulletin Board.
The Old Willys Forum is dedicated to wagons and pickups.
Surrey Gala and Dispatcher Jeeps are under DJ-3A Dispatcher Posts.
The M38/M38A1/M606 Preservation Group has a forum.
For other CJ and military Jeeps, see the g503 Message Boards.
See the Forward Forum for Forward Control Jeeps.
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