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DJ3A DISPATCHER CONVERTIBLE; RESEARCH THREAD
Topic Started: Dec 6 2013, 05:39 PM (10,290 Views)
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Dave put up a post for us......One reply so far wanting us to design our own, and a picture I hadn't noticed before of a top folded down. It is obvious there is no back seat!!(Hey if you can post that pic here, please do!)
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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colin
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
HI Guys-

This is a very complex set of comments back and forth about the convertible top and I wish I had the answer for you. The two photos from the factory of the Green DJ3A and the 1955 Factory DJ3A photo are the two best photos around. They show that the center bow was quite tall for headroom, and the Jeeps both had the lower CJ3B style windshield The green DJ3A that was on eBay some time back with the convertible top show some details but not enough to figure how the top bow configuration and how it folded down. The other depictions of the top on the brochures and such are that, artist depictions of what the artist thought it looked like. Willys was famous for having artists do their advertising with what the artists felt looked close to the way the vehicle actually was.

With the CS fasteners across the windshield, the top could be released from it, but the top bows would have to fold back. To keep the tension on the top, I think the center top bow would have two rods going from the top bow along the top of the door opening to the windshield like the Surrey top had, which keeps the top from flapping around over the door opening. It would also need to have tension web straps attached at the rear of the top bow, going to the angled rear top bow and additional tension straps going down to the body to footman loops or cs fasteners to give it the angled shape.

I think some of the aftermarket tops and frames by Bestop are similar in design but with a shorter rear bow. I would think that design would work if you shortened the rear bow.
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Wow, the mystery only deepens. Thanks to everybody involved. Here's the photo of the brochure from the E Willys site posted by Dave.

Posted Image

Posted Image




Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]


Earlier in this thread I posted a pic of the unusual stamp on the side of my frame that I haven't seen referenced anywhere before. Can anyone verify that this stamp is on any other dj 's?
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
I have a scrap 3A frame, it has a D marking. and a number.
All my DJ frames have the D and a number or two. Not all the same numbers.

I got pics this afternoon (Haven't headed out yet but soon) but will have to wait till I get to a good wifi place to download them.

All the markings are on the passenger side frame rail rearward of the front toe board gusset. What they mean I do not know...D can't be DJ as the one frame is definitely a 4WD frame.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
So I was right. Your convertibles do have that D marking. :D

Never even thought about that all Willys, even 4 wheel drive might have them too! :rolleyes:
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Bill, can you verify that these are the right style of fasteners?

Posted Image


EDIT. These DOUBLE TURN 'as described in the parts book fasteners have been determined correct for dj3a dispatcher convertible. They have threads for a nut on them instead of sheet metal like studs on CS or common sense fasteners.

Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Charles I would think they are the same style...I'm back on the road now so I can't go look, but they attach the same way anyhow.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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Bob W
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Check out this info for more on the frame stampings...
http://www.film.queensu.ca/cj3b/SerialNos/...alNosFrame.html
Bob W
www.cj3a.info
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Thanks for pointing out that link Bob!

Everything that anyone can find or point out that adds to my knowledge is truly appreciated!








Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Sometimes my brain doesn't work right. I should have already mentioned that http://www.jeepsurreygala.com is always one of my first go to sites when I'm looking for specific dj information. All kinds of technical stuff there.

Anyway I got to thinking about the convertible again. I decided to look at some of the pictures 'that could be trusted' and see if there was anything I was missing. I started with my picture search again. Not factory photos drawn by artists but real jeeps. Real DJ convertibles. 'Almost' all the pictures I had seen before but then I found this.
http://www.ewillys.com/2010/04/12/two-new-...-surrey-images/



Posted Image



As stated by Bruce, again in 2010, this was in 1958 in the Virgin Islands





Positive proof 'in my mind' that these type convertable tops did indeed fold back and store in a similar way as jeepster tops. A folding and storing set up that was contrary to any other top design that willys had ever used on its jeeps before.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
And then I compared these.

EDIT: first image now identified as a probable prototype and not produced on the willys production plant floor: charles tate

Posted Image




Posted Image






Those tops are very similar, yet, there's differences. Look at them closely.




And once again here's the green one that was listed on ebay in 2010

Posted Image
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
And before I forget here's those infamous tennis players we were talking about earlier.



Posted Image
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Even though I'm as near as I can tell at least a year away from this particular project I'm sure glad I started early trying to figure it out. I got my new CS fasteners in and they are just the cutest little things! There a lady on ebay that auctions them in batches of ten but since I'll need like maybe 18 I messaged her and she set me up a private auction where we could do it all official like through ebay. These were black and nice quality so thanks if you ever read this!

If I ever get to the material stage I'll need the oblong grommets too and was pleased to find that they're readily available from the boat guys.

I managed to find another pic of a stripped down one that had a couple of Bills type hooks left on them so I'm pretty sure I'll be replicating those.

Posted Image




Anybody wanna help me speculate what type of material they might be using from this era? Some type of vinyl? Black dyed canvas?
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Bill, take a look at this. It's a bracket from the dj3a that's been converted to 4 wheel drive on the cj3a forum. I'm not a member there yet but I sure do find this interesting. Was wondering if maybe you would contact him and see if we could shed any light on it.

EDIT: This bracket has now been identified and is not correct for a dj convertible:

Posted Image


To me it seems to fit the picture of the design I have in my head of what one should look like to fit the criteria to make the whole thing work. It just seems like it would have been too risky a design if the top bows were connected and hinged together instead of having two seperate pivot points like could be accomplished with a bracket such as this. I also no longer think either top bow would be adjustable, length or heighth wise like I had speculated earlier.

In fact I'll go out on a limb and say I now believe the back bow in this picture has been lengthened by cutting and putting a sleeve on each side in order to put a replacement top on it at some point.

EDIT: Now proven to not be correct for a DJ convertible:

Posted Image

In any event, once I get my tub and windshield back on the frame and am able to mock up some bows and brackets I believe I can use the profile of the pictures with the top up to reverse engineer and then figure out the geometry of where they lay when both up and folded back. Keeping in mind that there will still be the top attached to them meaning the top itself must be pleated and stowed inward when they are indeed back.

The top will always be attached to your style of clips........and to the bows themselves once installed.


When you want to raise it start pulling it up until the bows start standing up and the slack starts coming out. Two rods from the topmost bow will attach to the brackets like you have on your windshield frame, taking up most of the tension.

Then.......you start pulling out the additional slack as you take the cover over the top of the windshield frame and start fastening it to the CS fasteners, starting in the middle and working outward towards both ends.

The CS fasteners on the side would come last.

I would think that CS fasteners and grommets would have been more expensive to produce BUT would have been easier to get the slack out and fasten than a channel and rope, thus the design change from the early artist drawings and prototypes.

Keeping in mind that the same manual that shows drawings of the three windshields.......the short one with a channel......ALSO has a drawing of a hundred mile per hour King Sealy speedometer that doesn't exist.


EDIT. Now know that the KING SEELEY 100mph speedometer does exist and by now for sure one has been spotted on a 1956 DJ3A Convertible. 6/6/2017

Anyway.............that's my new theory I've been working on!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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