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DJ3A DISPATCHER CONVERTIBLE; RESEARCH THREAD
Topic Started: Dec 6 2013, 05:39 PM (10,289 Views)
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
I like your thinking. I have a feeling the bows on that last jeep may be the ones. You will notice they have a sleeve toward the bottom of the lower bow. I wonder if there is a spring there or?? to tension the top.

Having owned other convertibles, I think the procedure for erecting the top would be to unfold it and hook the CS fasteners on the windshield, and the rod around the back would already be hooked to those hooks we see in the photos. Then, slide the bows forward from their resting place to tension the top. Or, the main bow may be in a sleeve already and came forward with the top, but the rearward bow gets snapped in place to tension it. That is one of the mysteries to be solved. Fastening the CS fasteners last means you'd have to pull pretty hard to get a nice smooth appearing top like we see in the pics.

The blue jeep in the brochure appears to be heavily edited by an artist..I don't think that is a pure photograph if it is a photo at all. Look closely at the tail lights and the hubcaps...and where is the gas filler?

In any case, the rear window appears to be zipped in place once the top is up. (I think)

I posted a plea for any help or parts on the 2A and 3A pages.. We will see if that nets any new info.

59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Thanks Bill and MERRY CHRISTMAS.....To you and everyone else!

And just so you know. I couldn't do this without your feedback, guidance, and observation. Often times pointing me in the right direction to look.

I know you're right about the blue jeep. In fact here's another picture of I just found (and bought.....(Merry Christmas to ME :) )from the same brochure


Posted Image

That picture causes me problems for sure. Along with getting a tennis racquet and a beach ball, according to this one I also have to dress like a College Preppy to ride in it!! B)

Here's one last picture from the brochure that (we know that you can't always trust brochures) anyway, here's one last picture that just 'might' answer the question about material used.

Posted Image


________________________________________________________________________________



And another shot of one of my doors that fits the taller version.

Posted Image :ph43r:
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Look up Haartz canvas. One of the guys on the 2A page suggested looking at jeep tops, he gave me a link to a catalog listing of a replacement jeepster top which uses Haartz canvas. Unfortunately the jeepster top uses square and quite complicated bows, hopefully the DJ still uses round ones.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]


I'm going to take the liberty of quoting Bob here.


http://www.cj3apage.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB...=1387981850/1#1



Please forgive me Bob, I can't help myself.


Quote:
 
The bows in the photos on page 5 look a lot like late CJ bows. I just don't think they are correct for a DJ-3A. Here is a page from the late CJ parts book....
http://www.cj3a.info/reference/topcj.pdf

The following link is from the 1965 CJ-3B, CJ-5/6 and DJ-3A parts list. The top in question may be 693935 Kit, body top, folding.
http://www.cj3a.info/reference/topdj.pdf


Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Quote:
 
Look up Haartz canvas. One of the guys on the 2A page suggested looking at  jeep tops, he gave me a link to a catalog listing of a replacement jeepster top which uses Haartz canvas.  Unfortunately the jeepster top uses square and quite complicated bows, hopefully the DJ still uses round ones.




I was sure hoping it would be some kind of cloth and not vinyl. Get the stitches wrong on vinyl and it'll cut enough that it'll eventually rip out a seam. Also would be hotter underneath if the top was up in the summertime. I also believe it would be harder to pull the wrinkles out of!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
I went to every other link Bob had posted except that one. Good thing we have several heads working on this problem.

I wonder who the supplier of the 1974 CJ top was? To me that looks like a Bestop design but I am no expert.


There is a Jeepster on Ewillys right now that has a picture of the bows showing thru the back window....See if you can nab the pic for us, Charles. I THINK it has round bows. http://www.ewillys.com/2013/12/26/1950-jee...-13500/#respond

And I have been saving this for last....mainly because I need to figure out how to post the page...I have a parts listing for the specific top we are looking at BUT alas, no illustrations whatsoever. But I think we are at a point where the numbers may tell a story. I will work on trying to post it.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Here's the Jeepster


Posted Image


And here's the best I could do with a phone pulling out an image of the bows


Posted Image

___________________________________________________________________[__________


Wish I had a real computer with a program (and the skills to run it) that would enhance and manipulate images, in such a way that you could also make and print out plans with measurments or bring out intricate details.

Or....if we could get Nasa involved with the pictures AND a private detective to track down that green dj and sneak up on it and take some more pictures :D


Ah never mind, that might take all the fun out of figuring this out.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Here's an entire 49 jeepster convertible top frame


SURELY we're not looking for something that complicated for our little DJ's!


Posted Image


http://m.ebay.com/itm/131058773502?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Cross that rabbit trail off the list! I see some round tubing but everything else looks wrong.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Whew. Glad we got that out of the way


Ok, try this for the sake of documentation



Here's the images of the three windshields that caused so much confusion in the beginning



Posted Image

I haven't really found any proof (real jeeps) that had a windshield like the middle one with the channel truly exists........except in a few factory prototype images.

EDIT: I still don't believe there was a convertible with a channeled windshield, even in the prototype images but instead a separate bow attachment for prototypes only. I believe any production convertibles used the turn fastener arrangement to fasten the top to the windshield. Charles Tate

And then they don't look exactly the same if it's a real jeep.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Curious. Is there really a ventilating windshield like the third one on DJ's???????


EDIT: ventilating windshields exist....but super super rare. Charles Tate

______________________________________________________________________________



In trying to identify, in the beginning this image from the manual was completely overlooked



Posted Image


_______________________________________________________________________________


As seen on this thread, my convertible, other old jeeps , and on Bills two convertibles proof exists that in the real world components from this image actually do exist.

Disproving the theory completely that a correct 'DJ3A Fastback Convertible' had to have a top that fastened to the windshield with the channel system.


______________________________________________________________________________

Posted Image



________________________________________________________________________________



Right down to the fasteners on the side and back

Posted Image

Comments or evidence to the contrary are welcomed!!!!!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Posted Image


Further proof that these images are not a true representation of 'production' windshields lies within the multitudes of images such the one below.

It is of course an example of a dj3a delivery vehicle .


Posted Image


Cool little jeeps for sure
Lots of them around, especially when compared to the surrey and fastback convertible models
Windshield not depicted as seen in figures 46, 47 and 48.

_______________________________________________________


Reinforced conclusion. The drawings in question does not and can not support a claim that it is a true representation of 'production windshields.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
My next research project is I'm trying to dissect the parts list, and the special equipment list into a rough hand drawing of what I think are known parts and put the part numbers to them.


Since the 'special equipment' list that goes along with it consists of more than one jeep, specifically cj3b, cj5, cj6, dj3a, and surrey it tends to get a bit confusing, especially for me so it may take a while, if I can even accomplish it!


Would be a LOT easier of I had or could find a copy of one. (Drawing, Installation, Folding Top) illustration which doesn't have a listed part number.

ALSO, there's going to be at least one other discrepancy in the parts list as shown below.

______________________________________________________

Bills dj convertibles along with mine and a few others I've spotted show placement for 12 'double turn fasteners' in the windshield.

Not CS fasteners.......double turn fasteners.

I believe the difference there is original Common Sense fasteners attached with a sheet metal screw end and Double Turn fasteners had a machine screw end with a washer and a nut. Other than that they are the same



Posted Image




_______________________________________________________

I saw no mention of a windshield channel in the parts list for a 693935 folding top.

____________________________________________________________

I believe I have identified the brackets on the sides and back of Bills jeep as being part number 689965 'Bracket, Top Retainer Rod'

The SCREWS listed put them in the location of two on each side and two in the back!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Good detective work...

I think the rod retainer count is correct. two on each quarter and one on each side of the back.. ...
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Sometimes before things get better they have to get worse, especially when trying to decipher obscure evidence.

Quick thoughts about various fasteners.

The best I can tell some of the first canvas fasteners used on cars were manufactured by the 'Cinch Fastener Company' as early as 1924.

There was the 'Cinch Type also known as Clinch Nuts with a single post eyelet arrangement and used on Willys Knights and others from that era.

________________________________________________



There was the Common Sense, also could be known as Murphey Fasteners, used on the Willys M series.

_____________________________________________________

Common Sense available in three different types and remember this because I think it'll be important later, one of which is cloth to cloth.

Posted Image




Posted Image

Other Ford named fasteners

VELTEX DOT
DURABLE DOT
ANZO DOT

_______________________________________________


There likely are others

______________________________________________

And then, on the windshield of our little Black Sheep DJ Convertibles

Double Turn Fasteners, single post, with washer and nut!

Posted Image
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Speculating the three fasteners on each side of this willys and also shown on the missing green one that is out there in the world somewhere are going to be the cloth to cloth type.

Posted Image

Also speculating this is not a serviceable part which is why it doesn't show up on the special equipment serviceable parts list!!!

Posted Image
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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