Welcome to the CJ-3B Bulletin Board, the discussion forums section of the website CJ3B.info. Everyone is invited to view the postings here, but you must register as a member in order to post messages. The moderator reserves the right to remove items posted. Items may be archived in the Tech Tips section of the website. If you post a tech problem, please follow up by posting the solution when it is found, as it may be useful to other readers. For forums covering other Jeep models, see the bottom of this page.
Search for keywords or phrases anywhere in the CJ-3B Bulletin Board using Google. Enter key words here.
| You're currently viewing the forums as a guest. This means there are some features you can't use. If you register, you'll be able to post messages and use member-only features such as customizing your profile and sending personal messages. Registration is simple and free. Join the CJ-3B Bulletin Board! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| DJ3A DISPATCHER CONVERTIBLE; RESEARCH THREAD | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 6 2013, 05:39 PM (10,285 Views) | |
| PapaC | Jan 4 2014, 10:22 PM Post #121 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
More unrestored engine compartment![]() ![]() A better view of the back top bow radius
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 4 2014, 10:27 PM Post #122 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
As far as I'm concerned THE GOLDEN GRAIL Of all top bow brackets
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| SteveK | Jan 5 2014, 11:14 AM Post #123 |
|
Member
![]() ![]()
|
PapaC, you sure live a charmed life!!!! Thanks for sharing your learning and observations for us all to gain from. As Fbil said, you have found "Willys Heaven". Previously I had suspected those rare convertibles might have been limited to the 6Volt years, but this one shoots that theory down also. The only difference I can see from my '61 serial numbered model is the horn. Mine is flatter. Otherwise, the aircleaner and all are the same. That's an interesting heater water valve control. Can you find out more on that? After reading your string, I went out to the garage and tested another of my suspicions, which seems true. The radius of my Half-Top bow has the same radius as the corner of the rear body, except it doesn't go all the way to 90 degrees to form an arc in the bow. The top of the bow at center measures 31-1/4" above the body, where your bracket would mount, so the difference of the pivot to top length has to be considered for yours. The width of the bow at vertical is 57-5/8", and at the bottom too where your mount would be. The tubing is 1"OD and 1/16" thick. Hope this helps. I sure wish I could peruse that warehouse with you, especially that Might Mite I can see in the background, and the Ford, the really old stuff. What a collection! Enjoy, and THANK the old man from all of us please. Cya...SteveK |
|
SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 02:09 PM Post #124 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
Thanks Steve! I don't know if I've ever posted this . This is mine from the first day I brought it home. At least two gallons of bondo , rear panel butchered and cut out, no seats, every single bracket and gauges stripped out of it, Pinto rear end, brake lines cut, wires stripped, bent up gas tank with a hole in it from a previous wreck, a few rusted out spots, wires all cut and stripped out, four to five hole aluminum adapter for the front hubs, bent front axle, brake lines cut out, no horn, wrong tail lights, wrong bumpers, ....but overall solid. At least what was left of it was!!! I took a old boat gas tank, hooked up a gas line, charged the old battery, poured a bit of gas in the carb , and a few minutes later was riding around my yard and pasture. I didn't have sense enough to know there was too much stuff missing or wrong to try to put it back together! That said ....... One day I WILL have 'this old jeep' restored back to its authentic former glory!
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| F Bill | Jan 5 2014, 02:25 PM Post #125 |
|
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
![]() ![]()
|
That's too good a quote not to be in someone's signature line.. ![]() I am also very guilty of the "that's not that bad, we can fix it" syndrome...
|
|
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 08:08 PM Post #126 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
I'm not exactly sure what I'm seeing here. Consensus seems to be that's got to be a channel holding the top at the windshield. Here's the picture. ![]() I gotta tell you. I don't know where the channel idea came from, but this prototype picture, which does seem similar to 'some' of the other prototype pictures but not all......Well sorry guys but I don't see a channel there at all. Same as some of the others that are said to have an 'invisible' channel underneath the cover.....I just don't see it. That is not unless the channel would be CURVED......and right at the top edge of the windshield. Huh? What's going on here? Since best I can tell nobody alive has ever seen this 'invisible' channel Since all I can find are ASSUMPIONS of an invisible channel I decided to turn my search in a slightly different direction for a change . Bill gave me the clue......all I had to do was look. Here's what I found. 'I' think it makes more sense than a channel that 'I' don't think would work anyway for a convertible application. ____________________________________ First, there's this from 'the convertible top guys' http://www.convertibletopguys.com/sitemap/...convertible-top Wood Top Bows Convertible Tops and Convertible Top Parts The early convertible top frames required that the convertible top be tacked to wooden bows. The frame bows were called wood top bows. American convertibles eliminated wood top bows by the fifties. European convertibles retained the wood top bow approach through seventies Volkswagens and Mercedes. Rolls Royce convertibles are still made to be topped with convertible top wood bows. Applications: Wood bows are made for the WINDSHIELD, the bow over the rear window, to receive the rear base line tacks and to receive tacks in the rear side quarter section. Many convertibles, such as the Jaguar drop head coupes, had numerous other wood tacking forms. Um......does anybody know how those WINDSHELD wooden bows attached? ______________________________________ But but but..... How could THIS apply to a WILLYS UNLESS You take into account THIS How come I didn't know Kaiser used wood parts in their EARLY convertible tops http://www.kaiserwillys.com/product/1613/w...rts-accessories And just because they started phasing them out doesn't mean they didn't use WOODEN parts in their jeep prototypes. Well I do now.......and my research continues Next I think I'll do some research on military willys's and other civilian jeeps and see if they have accurate parts list and books and records and sales brochures that tell everything......
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| F Bill | Jan 5 2014, 08:56 PM Post #127 |
|
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
![]() ![]()
|
Do you think this is the same jeep with the grille chrome airbrushed out? http://www.ewillys.com/2012/02/14/dj-3a-pr...#comment-132736 It sure looks like a prototype with some sort of front windshield area bow. And here is a low windshield with the strip on it.. http://www.ewillys.com/2011/04/14/1956-dj-...#comment-132721 I have a theory.....maybe the very earliest production convertibles used the windshield strip and snaps on the tub. but, as it would have been a pain to get the top on and tight, so they went to the common sense style fasteners. The plot thickens yet again..
|
|
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 10:35 PM Post #128 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
I'll check that out for sure Bill. Have to give me a minute. I've been reading up a bit on Mr. Kaiser himself. Come to find out....he didn't even LIKE sport cars. But his new wife sure did. Makes a person wonder exactly what was going on behind the scenes there. Seem Mr Kaiser and Mr Darren sorta had a falling out!!! Oh, and I was just thinking. The difference between a white top and a black one. That's just a matter of which roll of cover might be rolled out on the cutting table. Betcha it wouldn't have been any trouble at all to order on if a influential person or dealer wanted one. I predict time will tell! Kaiser had recently remarried (1951), and found it in his best interests to cede to his new wife’s wishes. He gave preliminary approval to Darrin for production of the sportscar and commissioned him to build a four-door prototype that incorporated the sliding doors. The car entered into production in late 1953 powered by a 6-cyl, 161-cu.in. Willys F-head producing 90hp. The fiberglas body weighed 300 lbs. and the completed vehicle weighed in at 2,175 lbs. and sold for $3,668. Glasspar built the body up using a front and rear casting that was fastened together at the A-pillar. The remaining 5 pieces were attached to the main body assembly using hardware jointly developed by Darrin and Kaiser’s body engineers. The first twelve cars were built and assembled by Glasspar, then assembly transferred to a facility leased by Darrin in Santa Monica, California. Using FRP subassemblies supplied by Glasspar, approximately fifty cars were assembled by Darrin during 1953 before production was transferred to Kaiser’s Jackson, Michigan Trim plant. The initial 62 Kaiser-Darrins built in California differed slightly from the 435 built in Michigan during 1954. Kaiser needed to raise the headlights to make the car legal in all 50 states, and replaced the former’s split windscreen with a one-piece curved windshield. When Kaiser shut down their Jackson, Michigan trim plant in late 1954, approximately fifty unsold Kaiser-Darrin’s were transferred to Willys’ Toledo, Ohio assembly plant for storage. Unfortunately the cars were stored outside during a particularly harsh Ohio winter and when uncovered in early 1955, they were thought to be too water-damaged to be salable. Darrin had a friend at the plant who alerted him to the vehicles’ predicament, and he offered to buy the lot for pennies on the dollar. By that time Willys management had little concern for anything with a Kaiser badge, so they accepted the offer and shipped the cars off to Darrin’s shop in Santa Monica, were his small crew refurbished them and sold them as new. The car had been underpowered from day one, and a number of his customers requested upgraded power-plants. Darrin’s crew installed 270 hp Cadillac V-8s in at least six of the cars which were sold as Darrin-Cadillacs as the new powerplant required that the chassis be substantially upgraded to handle the increased power. A number of the Cadillac-powered Darrins competed in southern California club racing during the mid-to-late 50s. Both Laura Maxine Elmer (the future wife of Briggs Cunningham) and Ray Sinatra Jr. (son of bandleader Ray Sinatra, who was a cousin of Frank Sinatra) entered Darrin-Cadillacs in the 1955 Palm Springs Road Race. Lance Reventlow is also known to have campaigned a Cadillac powered Darrin. |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 11:29 PM Post #129 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
The plot thickens yet again.. :blink:[/QUOTE]
Ok here's the prototype ![]() And here's the short windshield with the channel....I had seen it before but had dismissed it as too weird, maybe wrongly so... (EDIT: windshield not origional to jeep) ![]()
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 11:32 PM Post #130 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
![]() ![]() Funny, I don't even see holes for the windshield wipers on this one.....maybe they got welded up, the wiper holes that is........ __________________________________ This is not willys but it is an example of what a wooden top bow that fastens to a windshield 'could' look like ![]() |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 5 2014, 11:45 PM Post #131 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
Oh, and I LIKE your theory
I'm just not sure that ANY production vehicles used the windshield strip and snaps. I just need a 'little' bit more proof off of something that hasn't been quite so modified. And yet, if you read this whole thread you'll see how many times I've been WRONG!!! I ain't scart to to admit it!!!!!!!! ![]() ______________________________________________________ EDIT....The description actually says.....
![]() Now I remember why I initially dismissed it. The windshield frame is NOT original to this jeep.... At least I had a decent reason for doing so Hehehehe...... |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 6 2014, 12:44 AM Post #132 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
Seriously, thanks Bill. Everything, and I do mean everything has to be resolved one way or another and answers have to be found. Quoting myself here from earlier in the thread
I still believe that......and I still believe in the Willys Dispatcher Fastback Convertible And more and more......well I believe it just may be THE rarest production vehicle willys ever produced Time, and answers will eventually prove me right or wrong. We already found ONE in Tn that most people didn't believe even existed at all that meets MY criteria. The guy was not a internet guy and I'll almost bet the farm that there's more convertibles hidden away out there somewhere in barns or garages or storage somewhere......and that there are more guys just like him that are out there that don't use the internet that own them. |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 6 2014, 03:18 AM Post #133 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
Whew. I'm glad they put up with me here. So here I was , sleeping like a baby, and my eyes pop wide open again. It's off topic so I'll try to keep it short. 1963. I was 6 years old (thought of this earlier today). Walked into a little country store and won the only thing I ever won in my life. A Daisy BB pistol. Looked almost exactly like a real old west 6 shooter. I've got it beside me now. I'm a pretty fair hand at searching the web. NOWHERE on this internet is a picture of this pistol, or the box it came in. Not on any Daisy site, not on ebay, nowhere. Does that mean it didn't exist because it's not well documented like about any other Daisy BB gun. Well no.....just now I moved it into my lap when I looked at it again. I've got a case pocket knife I found slipped down in some rocks camping at Enid lake when iwas about 12 or 13. Can't find a picture of it on any website either and I don't know why. It's one blade, a little bigger than a Barlow, scripted CASE, but somehow it didn't make the list that all the others are on. About 35 years ago I worked for FREDS for a couple of years. After a while I was transferred to a little town called Camden TN. Spent just over a year at that store. We were only one of two or three of what Fred's called at the time 'triple A test store'. Even the bigger stores in large cities like Memphis couldn't touch the income we were bringing in there. Know why? K-marts were taking over the larger towns and cities. Almost crippled Fred's at the time. But us out there Camden. We were a hundred miles from any Kmart and people came from miles miles around. Anytime anybody came out with something new we got to test it. If it didn't do good...poof, that stuff dissappeared. Betcha that stuff didn't get documented. So what DID willis actually document about DJ's? A service manual. A parts list....such as it is. Sales brochures. What about prototypes? Well at least there's pictures of them What about a data base of what was sold??? Oops. Guess they forgot about that. Sales records? Oops. Guess they forgot about that too.. Well though, that research dept. HAD to be making up prototypes. Since everything else was so much the same.....they had to find something to do to keep busy else they'd got fired .....or ended up working on the production line and I KNOW they didn't want that. By now we know Kaiser hated sports cars and ESPECIALLY fast sports cars. But you know how women are. At least you better know!!! You gotta kinda keep em happy. Specially when is the WIFE... So... To keep her happy he kept the convertible alive. All it took was a few fancy sales brochures , and ohhhh, maybe a dozen or less convertibles a year. He refused to mess with that engine in them though. He was smart enough to know that if they were FAST somebody'd kill their fool self in one of them!!!! That's why they aren't very many of them. He didn't even want people buying them but every year he doled out a few to, you know, just special dealers now and then, just kinda like that double a test store I worked at. He didn't have to worry about too many dealers, or people who wanted them anyway! Know why?? Who in their right mind wants a sports car that only goes. 45 or 50 miles per hour!!! I DO! Raises my hand!!!!! Ok. Going back to sleep now |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 6 2014, 12:32 PM Post #134 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
Whew. It's COLD outside. As a reminder, here's MY criteria for what I seek. First seen in the 1955 Willys manual. From 1955!!!!
|
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
| PapaC | Jan 6 2014, 12:51 PM Post #135 |
|
Papac
![]() ![]()
|
At first, when I started, it didn't exist except for the holes on my old Willys....underneath the bondo Then I spotted the green one. Then confirmed on Bills two Found a few more windshields, characteristics etc. on E Willys Found a real one in a post card with the top folded back in the Virgin Islands Proved inconsistencies in the parts manual.....and public opinion...that "they COULDN'T fold back"... And then we found the red one in TN which I saw with my own two eyes. Oh, I forgot, the colors are wrong.....or are they???? Where's the rest.....??? Was all the above just an 'accident'??? ............???........ The above are NOT theories.... Not when I've seen them with my own two eyes... It's simple. All ya gotta do is just convince me they don't exist... Lack of documentation ain't gonna do it for me... |
|
Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
![]() |
|
![]() Our users say it best: "Zetaboards is the best forum service I have ever used." Learn More · Register for Free |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · DJ-3A Dispatcher Posts · Next Topic » |



![]](http://z4.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)



















7:36 PM Jul 10