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| Drum hubs | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 16 2014, 05:09 PM (1,975 Views) | |
| SteveK | Jan 16 2014, 05:09 PM Post #1 |
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Has anyone ever tried to, or know how to, or know if it is even possible, to press the hubs out of the Dj brake drums? Thanks for any info, SteveK |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Jan 16 2014, 06:13 PM Post #2 |
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Papac
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Like this![]() They're held on by the shoulders of the lugs which are pressed through them. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Jan 17 2014, 08:23 AM Post #3 |
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OK, so it can be done. Thanks for confirming that. Now, how did you do it, how much pressure had to be applied? Did you use a press, a vice, or a BFH? |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Jan 17 2014, 09:03 AM Post #4 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Steve, why are you separating the drum and hub? Replacing drums? Stud broken? To do it right you use a tool to remove the swaging....Google wheel stud swaging for some details... |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| SteveK | Jan 17 2014, 02:49 PM Post #5 |
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Fbil, I went to the following site...http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/swaging.htm It is for stud removal. I wanted just as PapaC showed, the hub removal from the drum. I wanted to find out how it is done (acid bath, heat, pressure, etc). I hope I don't have to replace any studs, but if I do, that site is good info to keep.Thanks! I have one drum that I noticed is pretty thin (well outside of specs) compared to the others (right at specs max), and unfortunately it is on the front, the critical ones that get the most wear. It is looking like only used drums are out there now, unless PapaC works his magic somehow... lol. PapaC, when you're 'chilling' in the barn some time, could you measure that center hole size for me, in mm if possible? I've been scouring the sites for new drums. Some of the previously suggested replacements , like Scout, etc, don't come up any more. It looks like all the suppliers (NAPA, Advanced, AutoZone) are using the same data base now as I can't even look up by Willys...just Jeep, and they all show a Dispatcher with 10"/5-lug info...not good. Any way, I have found three 9" potentials, but all three have something different about them (including center hole sizes) to check out. I may have to do some 'modifying' on the outer lip too for fit. Remember, I'm not building a RESTORATION, so it doesn't have to be 'authentic' for me, but I want a driver with safe brakes. If I can FIT a drum from something else, I'd rather do that then have to convert to disk brakes or even a 10" drum system where I will have to get the whole $y$tem, and with the disks, even a new MC/booster and proportioning valve too...$$$$$. Thanks guys! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Jan 17 2014, 03:06 PM Post #6 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Yup, if we cpould find any source for new driums it would be sweet. Most of the drums in that size are for 4WD so the center hole is wrong, we might end up having to make an adapter ring and redrill the Cj2A replacement drums. (I haven't actually checked to see if they are even close to each other than the 9 inch spec. EDIT: aren't the original drums held on by the wheels and loose when the lugs are off? My DJ with doors has 5 lug custom drums and they all come off fairly easily when the wheels are off the jeep. A few taps with a hammer between the lugs and they popped right off. (Like any modern auto with drum brakes..) I think the spare drums I got were loose from the hubs as well. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| PapaC | Jan 17 2014, 03:52 PM Post #7 |
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Papac
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Steve and Bill. The one pictured separated itself when I was removing it from the axle. thankfully seems to be no damaged or warping. just clean separation. I'm going to make a jig and then heat the brake drum in a oven, leave the hub cold, and attemp to press together and then pull up tight with the lug nuts and washers. Then if needed I'll attemp to re-swedge with hand tools and concentrated heat instead of cold swedging. There's no manual on this, but I think if I wanted to seperate one on purpose I'd lay it on a concrete floor, quickly warm the hub itself up around the lugs with a torch. Start the nuts and run them in flush with the edge of the studs and then hold a piece of hard board over the lugs, and whop it a couple of times with a HEAVY hammer so it would have some inertia behind it. Keeping the blows even and the board moved from lug to lug between blows. Kind of like using a impact wrench to remove lug nuts. Hit move, hit move... Keeping the brake drum itself flat on a hard, immovable surface such as concrete should help keep it from warping or distorting. No guarantees but I can guarantee that's what I'd do. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Jan 18 2014, 09:42 AM Post #8 |
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Once again PapaC has the luck...It just fell off????? Are you kidding me? Here I was thinking you probably had it in your acid bath or something creative. lol I read on a site somewhere of 'caution' against the BFH approach, as it may distort the drum/hub. Too much heat might distort it too, according to the same site. If it is just the drum and you are discarding it, no problem. The hub is the gold, and the concern for me. I'm expecting the center hole area to be the hardest to break free. I'm thinking of some PB Blaster (rust penetrate) soaking around all the holes and the back edge of the hub, then using a hydraulic press (actually a 12-Ton pipe bender without the curved piece) and try to apply slow, constant, even pressure, with a few taps to wake it up. Maybe some uniform 'warming up' first is a good suggestion, but all I have is Yellow-bottle propane. We'll see. BTW, closer observation has shown that the drum is not worn even, and when let go rolls to a dead spot indicating not balanced either. At least I know my bearings are working good :-). What I found was some PO had NOT seated the inner race fully! Luckily no spindle damage resulted. I wonder how long it was like that? Obviously long enough to wear the drum oddly. Yes Fbil, if just a little trimming on the non-structural area of lip is all that's required, it could make life a little easier for everybody looking for new Dj drums. That's my goal. If I can't get NAPA to help me, I may have to buy one of each for experiments. The prices (so far) are $28, $40, and $90. Wanna guess which one will probably fit best? Stay tuned...I'm not as 'fast and furious' as PapaC tho. lol |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Jan 18 2014, 06:27 PM Post #9 |
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Papac
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Wellllll ........it didn't exactly just 'fall off'............. I had one side of the axle on the ground and chained to a pole at the time. On the other side I was using a ten pound sledgehammer and a big ole heavy drawbar off of my tractor as a press. Laid the drawbar down perpendicular and underneath and rested the edge of the drum I wanted to come off on and against it and bump (not hit bump) with the sledge letting the weight of the hammer do the work....not the blow itself. Resetting and rotating the hub after each bump. Careful and precise so as not to chip the edges of the brake drum. Out of all of them only the one came apart while doing this. The second part of the quote? I probably should recommend that nobody else try this method. I'm absolutely sure that a missed or misplaced blow WILL shatter the edges of the drum itself which appear to be pretty fragile. AND never ever hit or bump against the edges of that drum with a hammer itself. I suspect you definitely would be sorry you did. Once long long ago a 'uncontrolled' application of brute force cost me in the neighborhood of uhhhhh five grand or so give or take to repair the damage I unnecessarily caused.
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| garyc1955 | Jan 18 2014, 08:11 PM Post #10 |
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Charles ,it's not fair to not tell the rest of the 5 grand story.Gary |
| 1964 cj3b ,extremely rust free seems mostly unmolested and starting a restore in southern New Mexico | |
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| SteveK | Jan 19 2014, 10:31 AM Post #11 |
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Good news guys (and gals too if interested-using "guys" as a friendly 'collective term'), after soaking in PB Blaster for a while, with some slow easy pressure the hubs separated from the drums without much trouble. Now the search begins for a usable drum source...hopefully by the end of next week I'll have some more good news. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| SteveK | Jan 23 2014, 03:36 PM Post #12 |
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Bad News...the 2-$89/each special ordered 9" 4-lug drums arrived today, but inside the boxes were 10"-5-lug drums, not even what was pictured in the data base. Oddly tho, the same drum indicated for a 62 Dj on the data base elsewhere, even tho it was a Ford part I was looking at for this drum??? The really bad news is, the supplier says they are the last of and only 2 of 3 Country Wide (and these 2 of them are wrong!). Soooo, it's back to the drawing board. Seems the more the US depends on foreign manufacturing and shared data bases for info (GIGO), the further from accuracy we are getting, and loosing jobs and causing a lot of stress and wasted time and money here, while other countries are profiting from it. Scary huh? If anybody has a suggested 'confirmed' part source, please let everyone know. Thanks! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Jan 23 2014, 04:39 PM Post #13 |
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Just a thought Steve...have you tried any of the postal Jeep guys? Not that there were many (if any) 4 lug postals out there, but.......maybe they have a handle on where replacement DJ 3A drums could be had... |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| SteveK | Jan 25 2014, 08:44 AM Post #14 |
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If the Postals aren't included here with the rest of us DJ3A types, then I wouldn't know where to find them. I did locate some Scout 80 4-lug drums that Bruce mentioned earlier. One pair of rusty very used pair shown, but no longer available when I checked. Another supplier for Scouts had used drums listed at $168 each, no picture or specs given. Critical to me as I have found some Scout types are only 1-3/4" brakes. And that same supplier had ONE new NOS drum for $208!!!! and in the picture it looked to me like it had damage on the edge...Too rich for my blood to take a chance on any of those, especially only ONE. I want a pair to match for the front. More bad news, my second attempt at new arrived. This time as pictured, but circle too small and edge after brake surface too thick to miss the backing plate. Third test pair on the way but won't be here before the end of next week. Picture had obvious mis-located measurements sited (like OD for ID) soooo...Stay tuned... If they don't fit, I'm going to look into converting to front Disc brakes. My new rims will accept either 4.5 or 4.25 inch 4-lug patterns therefore broadening the choices. Has anybody out there done the 4-lug disk brake conversion already? We'll see what develops. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| SteveK | Feb 26 2014, 08:26 AM Post #15 |
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In case anyone was wondering why I haven't updated on my third attempt for drums, it is because I have received THREE backorder delays pushing the expected date into mid March now. At least they haven't said "unavailable" yet, but I am getting very concerned that the supply of new 4 lug, 9X2 drums for the Willys is extinct. My next closest option to try would require machining the center hole to dimension as well as re-drilling to 4.5 spacing for lugs. I'll let you know what results when it happens. Any suggested 'known sources' out there would be appreciated...and does anyone have the original Willys drum part number that I can try cross-referencing with? Thanks! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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3:53 AM Jul 11