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| Drum hubs | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 16 2014, 05:09 PM (1,976 Views) | |
| SteveK | Apr 17 2014, 08:12 AM Post #16 |
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Well, after 4 months of automatic 'backorder date changes' yet no drums for my custom order from Bendix, I've moved on. My fifth attempt has HIT PAY DIRT!!!! Finally, the drums for 67-73 Mustang 6 cyl fit ...with 'machining modification needed'. The center hole is the same 6.8mm, and the backspace from the inside hub mounting surface to end of drum is the same, and the shoe strike surface is even wider at 2.5" (if you can find/make larger shoes to work for better braking) vs 2.125". The overall drum is wider. The only mis-fit is the lip where the back plate sits. The thicker edge needs to be machined down to match the 9.25" OD of the braking surface OD of the original. That should not affect strength or safety of the drum as it is outside the used area. It will leave a wider and obvious gap outside the backing plate edge for those 'seeking original appearance', but I don't think there are ANY new-original-exact-fit drums available anymore. The data bases are changing often, three times in five months that I observed, and each time something gets lost. Either models dropped off the search methods, less specs described or wrong, and sometimes BOTH. Interestingly, Prices keep going up even tho the product is not available?????? Speaking of pricing, my custom order drums were going to cost me $145 for the pair, but I got the NAPA DRUMS #4401046 for $62 for both. They are special order, and NOT kept in stock, so who knows how long they will be available. At least Mustangs are more popular and plentiful to hold a market longer. I'll send PapaC some pics so maybe he can post pics of the lip situation comparison. I need to find someone to do the machining now. Unfortunately, I have NOT FOUND anything even close to the rear center hole dimension, but IF that is not a 'must fit dimension' to you, the 65-66 Mustang drum NAPA part#4401067 ($29.99 ea) with a 6.8mm center hole has the same backspace dimension, but like for the front, it needs machining to clear the back plate edge...The lugs should hold the drum in place. I'm going to try it. BTW, I think if you try searching by 67-73 Mustang 6cyl, other suppliers besides NAPA may be able to supply the drums. NAPA is close by and has been very helpful in this lonnnnnnnng and tedious search, so I'm sticking with them. Any other helpful info is appreciated.... Hope this info helps somebody else. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Apr 17 2014, 09:16 AM Post #17 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Time to try rock auto... What is the overall width of the drum, I wonder if my lathe is large enough to put a brake drum on.. I think the setup will be the difficult thing. A drum lathe would also be a fast way to do it....if you can convince someone to do real machining on their drum lathe. When you get your drums pleas post up some pics of the needed modifications..Nothing like fresh new drums to make the brakes work as designed. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| PapaC | Apr 17 2014, 10:45 AM Post #18 |
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Papac
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Congratulations!!!! Those are looking GOOD and looks like any modifications needed will be minor.
Certainly worth posting! Old vrs. New Take a look!!! Picture 1 ![]() Picture 2 ![]() Picture 3 ![]() Picture 4
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Apr 17 2014, 11:01 AM Post #19 |
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Papac
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More pictures Picture 5 ![]() Picture 6 ![]() |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Apr 17 2014, 11:27 AM Post #20 |
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Papac
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I wanted to add this section from the manual concerning adjusting the brakes. Note: only because this is the ONLY vehicle I'v ever worked on that had cams to adjust tension on the brake shoes instead if the star wheel adjuster like on other brake setups. ![]() ![]() |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Apr 17 2014, 12:17 PM Post #21 |
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Thanks Charles for posting the pics. Most of them are of the rears where the center hole is not matched(2.433" vs 1.75"). Earlier in the thread is Charles's pic with the rear hub separated for hole size comparison. I haven't been able to separate my rear set drums/hubs yet. :-( The fronts are on the right in the 'four set pics' and with the backing plate sitting on it showing too much material under it that needs trimming down. On both sets, the only machining required would be to reduce the first thicker ring outside diameter to 9.25" to match the OD of the originals, as indicated in pic 2 with black marks. Mine originals in the pics are very thin ID's and measure minimum approximately 9-1/16" ID vs the 'throwaway spec' of 9.06" ID, and one of my fronts is worn out of round too. Individual specs and pics can be found at NAPA site via the part number. The overall widths of the drums are the same as original, but the offset with the wider braking surface makes them look a little different. The excess braking surface is not used as only 2-1/18 surface is on the originals vs the 2.5" on the new. I used inside depth from the hub's mounting surface to back edge to determine back plate fit. The rears are 3/16" shorter than the fronts, or at least they are on mine. I'm off to find a cooperative machine shop, and when the drums come back, I'll ask Charles to post those pics too, and let you know how much it cost. Happy Hunting! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Apr 17 2014, 03:14 PM Post #22 |
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Papac
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No problems at all, I LIKE posting pictures!!!
I just separated my other rear hub like 5 minutes ago, no kidding. I had to because I'm on my to town to O'Rileys to get it turned just like they recently did my other three. I found out they 'has' to be to fit their machine. Here's how I 'finessed' it off. First I started all four lug bolts and ran them up flush with the end of the stud Then I laid it on a concrete floor, stud side up Then I balanced a 8" square piece of 3/4" steel plate across all four lugs Then I took a heavy (sledge hammer size with a short handle) brass hammer Not swinging hard but mostly letting the weight of the hammer hit with a good 'solid' THUNK I'd hit the steel plate once directly above each stud and nut and rotate The hub dropped loose before the end of the third full rotation. Hub, studs, and nuts not damaged at all EDIT. Last drum now turned.... EDIT AGAIN. O'Rileys no help on rubber brake hoses. Fronts...NAPA part number UP468278 $13.49 ea. 2 needed Rear......NAPA part number UP5784. $22.99 ea. 1 needed |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| div4gold | Apr 17 2014, 04:19 PM Post #23 |
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"Unfortunately, I have NOT FOUND anything even close to the rear center hole dimension, but IF that is not a 'must fit dimension' to you, the 65-66 Mustang drum NAPA part#4401067 ($29.99 ea) with a 6.8mm center hole has the same backspace dimension, but like for the front, it needs machining to clear the back plate edge...The lugs should hold the drum in place. I'm going to try it." Can't you use the Mustang hubs on the rear by just having the center hole turned out? |
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit
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| F Bill | Apr 17 2014, 05:44 PM Post #24 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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I think after looking at picture two, that you could possibly get away with a band saw to cut along the groove in the backside of the drum, maybe even a sawzall.....then grind it down with a angle grinder till the grinder hits the side of the grooved area?? At the very least it would cut down on machining time. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| SteveK | Apr 17 2014, 06:22 PM Post #25 |
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Thanks for the responses. div4gold "Can't you use the Mustang hubs on the rear by just having the center hole turned out?" div4gold, Interesting idea, but I have no idea as I didn't go there at all. I was concentrating on just drums with minimal changes. However, I did think in 'wonderment' if the whole backing plate and Mustang brake assembly could be changed to, preventing the machining requirement as well as having 9X2.25" shoes and more modern adjustments then???? but I was not ready to search for, buy, and convert all that... not yet anyway. Let me know, and anyone else too, what you use or have used already. FBill "I think after looking at picture two, that you could possibly get away with a band saw to cut along the groove in the backside of the drum, maybe even a sawzall.....then grind it down with a angle grinder till the grinder hits the side of the grooved area?? At the very least it would cut down on machining time." FBill, Only the outer edge of the inner raised portion needs machining to fit. I don't know how you could get a bandsaw or sawzall in there to it??? and If you cut all the outside raised portion and groove off, you may have less protection from infiltration of mud and water with nothing to deflect it from the edge of the back plate, not to mention a possible 'out of balance condition' from irregular cuts. Of course, anything is possible, if that's the way you decide to go. Let me know how it works out. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Apr 17 2014, 09:09 PM Post #26 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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I might have misunderstood just what you need removed...The way I understood the pics was you needed to remove the outermost 1/3 inch of the drum bell area....?? Maybe I need a cross section drawing of what is interfering. The method I am describing might be a balancing nightmare, I agree on that ....Although cutting it with a lathe also may end up with imbalance..How we would balance it without sending it out I don't know.. The Mustang does not have removeable hubs like the DJ if I am remembering correctly.. I think it has the "hub" as part of the axle shaft... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-1969-197...=p2054897.l5662 |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| Joe Friday | Apr 17 2014, 09:35 PM Post #27 |
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It's actually pretty easy to balance drums with a wheel balancer. |
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| div4gold | Apr 17 2014, 11:56 PM Post #28 |
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I used ford Bronco backing plates and drums. That increases the brake size to 11 x 2 inch's and upgrades to a more modern type brake. I had to get the center of the drums turned out to fit the stock Jeep axle hub. Almost as good as power brakes. |
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit
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| SteveK | Apr 18 2014, 06:46 AM Post #29 |
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Yes, 11X2" is quite an upgrade. Is that 4-lug and for a Dj, or for your Cb3 pictured? Did you do front and rear too? and what about the Master cylinder? |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| div4gold | Apr 18 2014, 10:51 AM Post #30 |
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I don't know if it would be possible to do the 11 inch brakes on the DJ. My 3B is what the 11 inch brakes are on, both front and back. I didn't do anything with the master cylinder. I remember years ago in my old MB not quite making it up a steep hill. I went backwards down the hill faster than I wanted to. That was with both feet on the brake pedal. Quite a ride. |
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit
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UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit 
3:54 AM Jul 11