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| Various DJ Parts Restorations ; intertwined with Off Topic | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 19 2014, 01:23 AM (16,080 Views) | |
| F Bill | Jul 12 2014, 07:36 AM Post #166 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Neat inventions there, Charles.. You mentioned Chimney flashing....My friend here in NY has a cabin/small house near Sacandaga Lake that he paid someone to do a metal roof on... There is a stone chimney in the peak of the roof, which he paid someone else to repair and point up and put a stone cap on....You'd think the two guys would have worked together to get the chimney flashed correctly.....but no. NO FLASHING AT ALL around the chimney. You can look right down along side it to the old roof. How would we correct that? It is the typical three rib painted roofing, and the stones are what we used to call hardheads, rounded granite type of rock. the gap is 1-2 INCHES! Three sides of the chimney would need flashing, as the final side is exposed where it sticks out somewhat from the side wall of the house. By the way.......guys, be safe out there. Take the little bit of extra time to make sure nothing bad will happen, or if it does, you are in a place where the excrement hitting the rotational airflow device doesn't also hit you. My friend got seriously injured unloading his pickup truck project from my trailer at his camp....He insisted on unloading it by rolling it off the trailer, with only wood blocks to insert as wheel chocks to stop it from rolling. No safety chain to stop it if it rolled away, no winch to let it down slowly. Worse, he was in front of the truck trying to hold it back when it got away from us. I was in the back corner and did not se where he was but he insisted he was ok and had everything under control. I knew better and should have insisted on chaining the truck back but ..again, he insisted and I let him do it. RRRGH. You can guess what happened. Pelvis broken in two places, can't walk for 6 months, lifeflighted out of there, etc, etc. All to save a little time. IT JUST ISN"T WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE! Now my big cleanup at the house is on half speed or less, with no help. I also am taking up the slack he left at his house, doing the mowing and yard work and heavy lifting. I have a feeling I will be here until the snow flies. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| SteveK | Jul 12 2014, 08:13 AM Post #167 |
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Charles, no cause for your 'ouch' intended, just a stated mystery to me, and speaking of 'ouches', sorry about your friend Bill. Safety First is always best, but not always seen as necessary...til afterward. We all are probably guilty of that a time or two. Charles, those stair rails are a work of art, and the rest very creative, and yes, scrap steel is VERY hard to find these days. Thanks for sharing. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Jul 12 2014, 01:05 PM Post #168 |
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Papac
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Another ouch. Stone chimneys are the hardest to counter flash correctly!!! The main flashing for tin would be a L shaped pieces of metal caulked and screwed to the tin and running up against the sides of the stone. That's easy enough. The stone itself needs a straight groove cut into it with a diamond blade for the counter flashing to be called and inserted into as seen here http://www.waukesharoofingcontractor.com/2...-stone-chimney/ That's sort of the basics involved. Pretty simple (and complicated too) for a brick or stucco chimney. I use a two by four as a guide and a skillsaw with a diamond blade to cut the straight groove, test fit my pieces and cut and make the lap corner bends, then insert caulking 'into' the groove, and push the counter flashing into the groove. Then touch up the caulking at the top of the groove after the metal is inserted. If it's rough, rounded, uneven stone cutting that groove gets harder and might require renting a big old heavy ugly gas powered concrete demolition cutter and cutting freehand. Pricing to have the latter done is going to be outrageous!! Alternatively, if you decide not to spend about as much for flashing as you did to have a smaller roof installed The 'bubba' method comes into play! That's when you go buy a bucket of wet or dry plastic cement, a narrow putty knife, and apply tar as caulking to the dad gummed thing. A better bubba method, might be to buy a bunch of tubes of good caulking that sticks both to stone and metal and again a putty knife to help smooth it out after you build it up enough.The flashing, counter flashing solution is permanent and will last as long or longer than the roof. The tar or caulking method is not considered permanent but will work if care is taken and the surfaces are clean. It will likely require maintenance over the years. Note. Stone or brick doesn't move. Wood and metal contract and expand thus the need for flashing and counter flashing which creates a slip joint. That is also why the caulk or tar will likely need maintenance should it dry out or crack, largely because of the difference in the materials. Done properly (loose description ) though (clean surfaces) you can get quite a few years out of it before maintenance. Ps. If you had some lead sheeting. (Very hard to come by these days) you could use that as counter flashing by drilling and anchor bolting the top edge with a line of 1/4 inch dia mushroom headed anchor bolts beating on it and making it conform to the shape of the stones as you go. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 12 2014, 01:22 PM Post #169 |
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Papac
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I am truly sorry about your friends accident and am praying for his recovery. His family and you too. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| F Bill | Jul 12 2014, 08:52 PM Post #170 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Thanks for the prayers, guys... And Charles, that looks like just the thing I needed to figure it out...Now to inspect the chimney and see just how involved this will be...Looks like it will be a fun and slow job. I was sort of expecting to see the upper flashing actually be embedded in cement but the groove looks simpler. Time to put my scaffolding to use. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| div4gold | Jul 12 2014, 10:57 PM Post #171 |
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Buy at least 3 times as many abrasive saw blades that you think you might use rock will really eat them up. Some rocks may be almost impossible to cut through and use a breathing mask you are in for a lot of dust. I put a concrete tile roof on my house I had to cut all of the valleys and hip pieces. 54 square roof, I'm sure I went through at least 50 blades. The dust ate up my saw and I had to have it refurbished . Your job won't be near as big as a whole roof but I'd bet the rocks give you fits. If you have a rock that is similar to the ones you plan on cutting do a practice cut on it and see how it goes. Good luck. Take some pictures. |
Old retired fart living in Ione, WA. I have a 1964 CJ3B. Recently overhauled original motor, transmission and overdrive. 11" Bronco drum brakes on all 4. Needs a new coat of paint but that will have to wait till next summer, it's next summer and I'm working on that now UPS & FEDEX will continue to profit
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| PapaC | Jul 13 2014, 10:28 AM Post #172 |
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Papac
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No disrespect intended but get a steel diamond tipped blade blade designed for cutting hard granite. They're super cheap compared to what they were 5 or ten years ago. And yes, the dust is horrible. You're going to need a compressor or a blower to blow the dust out of the crack so caulking will stick and you can also use that to blow the dust out of the saw after each cut. Also that dust is going to make that tin slippery until you blow it off. BE SAFE Ps. Concrete tile roofs are the best and unless a tree hits it will last forever!!! |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 14 2014, 09:56 PM Post #173 |
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Papac
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Well I've grown hate setbacks but I've also learned to accept them as normal. It's all just a matter of time and perspective, right??? Bad news #1 Took 2 days to find my big valve spring tool. The little one I had was useless. #4 exhaust valve adjuster slightly bent, and a break half through. More investigation in order. If everything else is ok will steal adjuster from the ohio motor Bad news #2 Now I remember why I had set the ross steering box and column aside last winter. Several spots (not edges but just slightly deeper in rust type deep pitting on part of the worm gear. The thing was FULL of grease all the way to the top of the steering column. Oddly the races, balls, and bushings appear ok and almost look new I put new races balls, etc in my dad's cub cadet just before I started working on this jeep. If it was taken apart today, it would appear in similar condition to this one. Full of grease, water and rust damage repaired everywhere......except on the worm gear. Wasn't trying to make it new, just usable and it helped the old tractor tremendously. I want this jeep one completely repaired. Going to heat, weld the pits, hand machine (die grind and file) the pits smooth and re heat treat and attempt to improve to better than usable condition. This one won't be heated and slow cooled like soft parts that need to be strong rather than hard. To restore and maintain hardness will heat just past non-magnetic and temper in oil. Also have wallered out holes in the steering shift linkage ears, wallered out holes and one break in the ears that hold the pin that holds the shifter, and need repairs to the ball end of the shifter where it is worn. Oh well....a week in the life!!! |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 15 2014, 01:31 AM Post #174 |
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Papac
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Update: Threads in lifters appear undamaged ![]() Valve seat and guide appears undamaged but need attention ![]() Badly bent and cracked adjuster. Wear corresponding to the bend on the valve mating surface of the adjuster, lower left hand corner. Valve has shiny spot but no real apparent wear corresponding ![]() Another shot of the badly bent and half way broken adjuster ![]() A bent valve I could understand and diagnose the cause. But a bent and partially broken and sideways worn adjuster??? ?????????? |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 16 2014, 01:42 AM Post #175 |
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Papac
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Still have been unable to diagnose the exact mechanical cause of the break.... Unless...perhaps at some time when someone was messing with the valves they gee'd when they should have haw'ed and twisted it too tight with a wrench, almost breaking it, before re-adjusting . I have been unable to find surrounding damage other than the shiny spot on the valve where it was contacting the worn top edge of the bent adjuster. I've got all the carbon removed from the valve chambers after whittling short sticks to match and plug all of the oil drain holes which I then covered with a oily cloth to catch any debri. The guide is no different from the others, top and bottom, and not near enough play so it couldn't have been coming down sideways through a badly worn guide thus causing the bend. Also can't tell that it was ever bumping into the head, which would probably have resulted in a bent valve and other damage if it had instead of a half broken adjuster. Unless someone knows something I don't...at this time.... and since I couldn't find an example of this in a internet search, I almost have to conclude that this was caused by human error with wrenchs. Unusual is evenwith that bend the motor was running good before starting restoration. It's a puzzle to me for sure except to say I'm sure glad I went into the motor. That makes a worn out rear seal, a broke oil ring spacer, and a half broke valve adjuster that would have been just waiting to bite me in the #%#### someday going down the road. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Jul 16 2014, 08:30 AM Post #176 |
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That's a good mystery. Maybe Oldtime on the 3B page can answer it. I would think it would take a lot of side force to do that, but maybe not. Do you think a frozen adjuster nut caused someone to hit a wrench with a hammer to try to free it up is possible? Sometimes I think we all forget just how fragile some of the parts on these ole girls can get over time...just like us. No explanation, just wake up with it. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| F Bill | Jul 16 2014, 08:41 AM Post #177 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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My vote is mechanic error broke it... any signs of boogered up wrench flats? Are you going to do the valve job yourself or bring it to a machine shop to cut the seats? Those Neway ??cutters are the ticket if you can borrow a set, but to buy might be more than having it done. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| PapaC | Jul 16 2014, 01:28 PM Post #178 |
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Papac
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Thanks guys for speculating on my suspicions. I feel better now and am going to close the case and continue. As for the valves seats I'm going to take the easy way out and ignore at least half, maybe more, of the present advice on the internet. Unlike the ohio motor this one has never had hardened exhaust valve seats installed. So for all the wrong reasons....economic....I'm going to hand lap them, shine them up a fraction (no drill just hand work) and put them back together. I can't say I'm TRULY happy with this decision but it is what it is and will be better than it was. Also taking into account it's a low compression motor. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 16 2014, 05:37 PM Post #179 |
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Papac
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I can't leave well enough alone. There is indeed a small wrench scar on the adjuster that might well be in the right position to have caused the break. I still can't imagine why someone would tighten it that tight unless they were trying to mess with the clearance with the cam lobe in the wrong position. The other adjusters move easily. The valve lapping is coming along great..... taking about as long to de-glaze the old valves as doing the lapping itself. With about 5 minutes of twisting back and forth along with regularity raising and lowering the valve with fine grit only it's leaving behind a perfect (to the naked eye) dull grey valve seat and a narrow shiny band with no pitting. Pictures for inspection and feedback as to condition later. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jul 16 2014, 07:40 PM Post #180 |
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Papac
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The valves all are coming out pretty much like this![]() Close up of valve seat ![]() Partial overall shot after some cleaning.
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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method, might be to buy a bunch of tubes of good caulking that sticks both to stone and metal and again a putty knife to help smooth it out after you build it up enough.






3:52 AM Jul 11