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Various DJ Parts Restorations ; intertwined with Off Topic
Topic Started: Jan 19 2014, 01:23 AM (16,079 Views)
garyc1955
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Hi Charles,it looks as if that head has had a fairly,mile wise,recent valve job.I don't think a machine shop could improve it much.I have lapped many valves and there is nothing wrong with it.These motors are low tech and a fancy three angle valve job will be a waste.I sure many will disagree.That damage had to of been caused by a heavy handed dufus.Gary
1964 cj3b ,extremely rust free seems mostly unmolested and starting a restore in southern New Mexico
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Quote:
 
I don't think a machine shop could improve it much


Music to my ears

Yeeeee Hawwww!!!! (cowboy term )

Now.... If I can just remember that GEE is to the right and Haw is to the left (working horses or mules terminology) when I get er back together and set the valve lash correctly everything oughta come out just 'honkey dorey' (don't know where that term comes from but I'll take it.

Whaaaa Hooooo!!!!

Thanks Gary!!!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
So, touched a couple of em up just a tiny bit more and cleaned everything up meticulously. A tiny bit of lube on the valve stems and dropped them in their holes making sure I 'd kept everything in order. Had previously marked the valves upon dissassembly. A bit of grease to help hold the keepers until I could release the springs.

Put a head on to keep trash out and temp fastened the cover plate on the side. Soaking the manifolds now. Can't permanently install either until I get new gaskets, can't make those.

I've also determined I want a water pump, don't trust old ones.

I adjusted the valves at .016..... .017 won't go and.....

using Bills advice from a post on the CJ2A page wayyyy back in 2009


Quote:
 
FBill, the CJ2A page, June 27, 2009 " I adjust the valves in "pairs"  ...what I do is turn over the engine slowly and look for a cylinder where one set of valves is "rocking" ...the exhaust is going down and the intake is going up . At that point the other cylinder in the same throw position on the crank  is ready to adjust.

WHen 1 is rocking, 4 is adjustment ready.. WHen 2 rocks, 3 is ready.. 3 rocks,  adjust 2..  4 rocks, adjust 1."
"


Now back to cleaning parts, ugh...

Ps. Got the welding done on the steering shaft worm gear and started filing smooth.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Looooong day


Welding, filing down and polishing that worm gear with diamond needle files isn't recommended. Toooo much work. That said I'm happy with the end result and the steering box is finally back together.

Seperating the manifolds so that they could be properly attented too was also a challenge. Of COURSE one of the four bolts holding them together had a rounded off head that wouldn't turn with a wrench or socket. Had to weld another longer bolt to it to get it to move.

Also challenging was that one little stud on the bottom that holds the exhaust pipe. Didn't bludge at all after multiple heating (didn't want to take a chance on getting that cast too hot) but after welding a bigger nut to it it finally broke loose without twisting off.

Still need gaskets so for now the head and manifolds are just mocked up together . Still needing a waterpump too.

Thinking next I'll tie up a few of the multitude of loose ends that don't cost a lot of money and do something easier for a minute like going into the generator and starter.


Also still gotta get the wear out of the shift mechanism that attaches to the column.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
I'm looking forward to seeing your detailed step by step on column repair, as are many DJ and early CJ2A column shift owners..

Not surprised the worm gear gave you fits, it is hard stuff. Do you by any chance have a picture of the worm showing the end of the shaft at the bottom? I just took a worm and shaft out of my muriatic then Evaporust dips and am wondering if it is supposed to look like mine does..I have a feeling I need to weld up the end and them machine it round again...as it has a step in it.
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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SteveK
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Just a suggestion for 'search sake' for others...there's a lot of very good and detailed process information and pics too hidden in this topic "Off Topic". Some separation into individual topics could assist others (like the mentioned column shifters) in finding it later on.

I look forward to seeing what's next every day.

Stuff is too good and useful to be lost...in my opinion, worth half what you paid for it...Thanks!
SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
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PapaC
Papac
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F Bill,Jul 20 2014
06:35 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing your detailed step by step on column repair, as are many DJ and early CJ2A  column shift owners..

Not surprised the worm gear gave you fits, it is hard stuff. Do you by any chance have a picture of the worm showing the end of the shaft at the bottom? I just took a worm and shaft out of my muriatic then Evaporust dips and am wondering if it is supposed to look like mine does..I have a feeling I need to weld up the end and them machine it round again...as it has a step in it.


It was so difficult, for ME to get correct I didn't take photos of the gear. I did not take pics :( of the welding and grinding process. Since it's all freehand and eyeball work and re-tempering and since this soooo important for safety I was afraid some amateur (besides myself) would either ruin their gear completely, or do something wrong and get their fool self kilt dead if something went wrong.

I shoulda KNOWN Bill didn't fall into this category!! :)

That said here's a real good VIDEO that shows the Ross steering box being put back together that is better than any pics I could have taken. I did not replace the balls, cups, or races since mine were fine and in my opinion up to spec. I did, as mentioned do quite a bit of welding and finishing on the worm gear itself and replaced the grease seal.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NsILb3-O4AY

Here's a pic from the video (kaiser wilys) showing end of the worm gear and note there is a step or lip at the bottom.

Posted Image

Also, the lower bearing cup will slip right through that bottom ring before the balls center it up evenly. Then everything will lock in place so balls (11 of them) and cup first and then the lock rings. Grease will help hold them as you're putting it together.

Also, on mine, there was a spacing that 'almost' looked like you could have slipped another ball in there but not quite. Yet the individual balls appeared tight so I 'believe' this to be normal and has to do with the nature of the beast, especially since mine is now turning free and smooth. 'Thinking' that bit of space is going to have to do with ease of turning the wheel back and forth but not sure.

EDIT: A CLOSER LOOK AT THE VIDEO INDEED CONFIRMS QUITE A SPACING BETWEEN THE INSTALLED BEARING BALLS.

I'll know more after it's fully installed and test driven.







Quote:
 
Just a suggestion for 'search sake' for others...there's a lot of very good and detailed process information and pics too hidden in this topic "Off Topic". Some separation into individual topics could assist others (like the mentioned column shifters) in finding it later on.  I look forward to seeing what's next every day.   Stuff is too good and useful to be lost...in my opinion, worth half what you paid for it...Thanks!


Thanks Steve, it's people like you and Bill that keeps me going!!!

I will indeed start a separate thread for getting the slop out of the shift mechanism itself since I too expect that's probably a common problem on these old column shift jeeps.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Picture of mocked up head and manifolds. (No gaskets)

Posted Image

The bracket on top is just cleaned up and pre-coated. (10 cents a can Sherwin Williams grey spray paint my wife picked up at a yard sale)!!! It's a shame they only had 4 cans and only in grey, boy does that stuff spray smooth.

Still needs a correct finish coat and a couple of rubber spacers (vibration dampeners) between the holes in the left hand side and re-instillation of the slip on capture nuts for the really odd (weird threaded) bolts that go along with that side. The right side set of holes gets regular bolts with lock washers and nuts.

Later I'll add a pic of the bottom stud on the exhaust manifold I had to weld a nut onto and the bolt that I had to weld another bolt onto to get the manifolds apart to this post.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Charles, that still shot from the video looks exactly like my shaft...I think I will try and save it...The other issue is the threads at the top have been smashed by a puller doing the old rusted steering wheel pulling maneuver. Any thoughts on how to fix that? I'm thinking I need to find a split die in that thread to install on the shaft, then back it off the shaft cleaning up or recutting the top 3 threads as it comes off..

DO you have any ideas that might work better? (Or a source for a split die? I wonder if I could get away with simply using a thin cut off wheel to split a regular die?)

"Still needs a correct finish coat and a couple of rubber spacers (vibration dampeners) between the holes in the left hand side and re-instillation of the slip on capture nuts for the really odd (weird threaded) bolts that go along with that side. The right side set of holes gets regular bolts with lock washers and nuts."

I have no idea what the special bolts and Pal nuts are on the oil filter bracketry...Are they in the parts lists?
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
F Bill,Jul 21 2014
06:19 AM
Charles, that still shot from the video looks exactly like my shaft...I think I will try and save it...The other issue is the threads at the top have been smashed by a puller doing the old rusted steering wheel pulling maneuver. Any thoughts on how to fix that?  I'm thinking I need to find a split die in that thread to install on the shaft, then back it off the shaft cleaning up or recutting the top 3 threads as it comes off..

DO you have any ideas that might work better? (Or a source for a split die? I wonder if I could get away with simply using a thin cut off wheel to split a regular die?)

"Still needs a correct finish coat and a couple of rubber spacers (vibration dampeners) between the holes in the left hand side and re-instillation of the slip on capture nuts for the really odd (weird threaded) bolts that go along with that side. The right side set of holes gets regular bolts with lock washers and nuts."

I have no idea what the special bolts and Pal nuts are on the oil filter bracketry...Are they in the parts lists?



I've has good luck fixing smashed threads with a sharp edged diamond needle file like you can get a whole little set of at harbor freight. Especially working around the end enough to get a nut started good and then make sure it isn't cross threaded and then use the nut itself to force straighten up the rest.

Not really filing any threads off, just sort of cutting and working a straight path with the thin edge of the file and a good camphor at the tip end so the nut will start. Might lose close to a full round of threads there.


I have no idea what the special bolts and Pal nuts are on the oil filter bracketry...Are they in the parts lists?

I'll have to check but they were on both brackets, mine and one on the ohio motor bracket. Both of them Dj motors.

Ps. 'One' pal nut and bolt was missing on the ohio bracket.

I'll check Bruce's online parts list
:) at jeepsurreygala.com and get a picture of the really weird (extra coarse and rounded edges) and slip on capture nuts when I get home later today.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
The entire bracket wasn't mentioned in the 55 preliminary parts list.

Only a pic of the bracket itself, no bolts or fasteners in the regular parts list.

There it was just mentioned as a part number for the bracket itself and a note saying 'Not Serviced'. So it's a good thing I had a extra for backup verification!



Posted Image


Each 'screw bolt' (a term I just now coined) :) fits their pal nuts perfectly. Only ONE of them had the remnants of one of the badly deteriorated rubber washer vibration dampener that was in between the flaps of metal on each side where the screw bolts :) go.

That one was on one side of the bracket that was on my original Dj motor.

Maybe Steve can take a gander at his sometimes and see if it's the same thing.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Waaa Hoooo!!!

Had a real good day. My guys tore off and replaced almost 35 square and me and Debra fixed leaks in two separate buildings. A Eye Clinic and a Cardiology office in Oxford.

My water pump and top end gasket set should be in tomorrow morning!!!
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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SteveK
Member
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Quote:
 
Maybe Steve can take a gander at his sometimes and see if it's the same thing.

Just four bolts, lock washers and hex nuts on mine, but believed to be changed by PO. I know my engine was worked on and the filter bracket probably removed and original mounting hardware discarded for readily available nuts and bolts upon re-assembly.
SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
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PapaC
Papac
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
SteveK,Jul 22 2014
04:26 AM

Just four bolts, lock washers and hex nuts on mine, but believed to be changed by PO.  I know my engine was worked on and the filter bracket probably removed and original mounting hardware discarded for readily available nuts and bolts upon re-assembly.

Thanks for checking Steve. Still though it's curious to me that of all the nuts and bolts and fasteners etc. that shows up in the two parts list I examined these didn't show up. Or maybe not concerning all the other inconsistencies that have been found in those list.

It's a mystery to me as to WHY such a odd combination there. Those type of pal nuts are easily stripped if ever over tightened, especially if a screw is involved, a bolt like shown probably wouldn't be any different.

Thinking that as the piece of rubber between the flanges deteriorated between the flanges of the bracket itself they might be harder to keep tight, especially with those wide threads. So maybe it is rare item to find intact and is why one of them was missing on the ohio bracket???

Here's the picture again. If anyone's watching who knows

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS TYPE OF FASTENER SET UP BEFORE ON A L-HEAD, L134 GO-DEVIL ENGINE BEFORE, or maybe even a F-HEAD on the oil filter bracket???

Posted Image
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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F Bill
Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
[ *   *   *   *   *  ]
Just a theory, and ONLY that...Is it possible Willys was trying to eliminate the long standing problem of the brackets breaking with stress cracks by allowing some flex in the setup?

I don't remember seeing bolts like that on any of my Willys products but you are talking to the guy who forgot about a complete Siata Sprint stashed away at my old place.... :blink:
59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain
60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD
60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it.
60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW
Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille
56 tub, from 11826
And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left.
All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my
DJ with doors..
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