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L 134 Valve Seats; Miss Willy in a Bind
Topic Started: Apr 10 2014, 07:39 PM (961 Views)
glennstin
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This subject is probably on here somewhere but the search engine is down. Miss Willy, DJ3A 56337- 10488 has a broken #4 exhaust valve seat. I guess I didn't even know these were replaceable. Which probably means this one is a hardened seat machined in a rebuild. Her engine is not the original block. The flying parts severely damaged the piston top and bent the intake valve. I've not disassembled further than head removal yet. Looks like a trip to a machine shop to me. I've never had this problem previously. Who can chime in here to help with a direction to go. Here in Maine we frequently have good running replacements for reasonable $$$. Usual quotes for a total rebuild are 2+ grand. Miss Willy has a broken heart.
1963 CJ3B, 1962 Surrey Project, 1961 DJ3A, 1956 DJ3A, 1953 CJ3A Farm Jeep, 1949 Jeepster, 1948 Station Wagon Project, Al-Toy Model Jeeps, Willys Special Equipment Galore, Willys History and Literature. WILLYS BLOOD Runs in My VEINS.
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PapaC
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OUCH!!

I'v rebuilt quite a few motors, none of them willys and I've mostly always had a reputable shop do all of the machine work, block, head or heads, crank, rods, etc., and then I'd put them back together myself with new parts.

Not sure I saved a lot this way though because 'most' of the cost is the machine work and new parts themselves, with the exception of R&R (removal and reinstallation)

A 'few' I'v rebuilt I just honed and replaced what I absolutely had too and I'v had pretty good luck with those too.


Like I said though, I'v never been into a willys motor yet, just wanted you to know I feel your pain.
Charles Tate....North Mississippi

1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible
Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts.

1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only)
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Joe Friday
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Glenn,

Was the damage only to the top of the piston and the head? Or did it damage the cylinder wall?

You can replace the piston, and sand down the dings in the head. (if there are no cracks)

They make oversize valve seats in many sizes, some only 1-3 thou over, some 60 thou over. If the bore for the seat was not damaged you may be able to install the new seat without removing the engine.

It is not the end of the world.

Had it been sitting a long time? Sometimes if you had a leaky head gasket the valve can rust to the seat, and it literally pulls the seat out while cranking.

Did it fall out while running? If so, was it overheated?

Let me know if you need a list of the oversize insert dimensions an part numbers.
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oldtime
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http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=4135

I don't recall this topic ever having been discussed.
The main concern is determining the extent of the damage and whether or not the engine needs a full rebuild anyway.
If the 4 bores remain servicable and the dinged piston is still good you may not need to completely disassemble the engine.
Until you detrermine the bore condition and verify the condition of the damaged piston you should refrain from removing the pistons.
Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B .
Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963)

http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new
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garyc1955
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Keep in mind that when an object hits the top of the piston it can squeeze the rings so they cannot move freely in their groove.It usually doesn't make the rod bearing any happier also.They make a tester that will pull a vacuum on the cylinder and test the integrity of the rings .Maybe a friendly machine shop will lend one.One more thing,rods can bend .Check height at top dead on all cylinders and compare.Luck to you,Gary
1964 cj3b ,extremely rust free seems mostly unmolested and starting a restore in southern New Mexico
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Joe Friday
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My 2002 Liberty dropped a valve seat , crushed it in the cylinder, and spit it out the exhaust. I replaced the seat (actually the head - it is valve in head), vaccumed out the debris, sanded the piston top, and zipped it back up. That was 42,500 miles ago.
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glennstin
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Thanks for all the help. I spent some time today examining the remains. This engine was running reasonably well, until I started it at a local parking lot event. Sounded like a sticky valve, and came out of it quickly on the way home. Next time I started, did the same thing, quieting down as engine warmed. As it idled, I was preparing a Marvel Mystery Oil Cocktail when the EVENT happened. I shut it down quickly. Looks like #4 exhaust seat was the only one repaired as I can't see other replaced seats. The cylinder head will survive with smoothing, piston shows no cracks, but has been thrashed hard, spark plug was hit closing gap, intake valve is bent, and cylinder wall has at least one scratch that catches your thumb nail. Right now my thinking is replace it with a used engine to enjoy this summer. Dismantle as time allows to inspect further, and check machine shops to see cost involved to repair #4 valve seat. Engine shows some ring ridge, so most likely should have at least one new piston, rings, and total valve job to be dependable again. As garyc1955 said, a #4 rod check is very advisable after what it's been through. Sure looks like this engine is down for a while.
1963 CJ3B, 1962 Surrey Project, 1961 DJ3A, 1956 DJ3A, 1953 CJ3A Farm Jeep, 1949 Jeepster, 1948 Station Wagon Project, Al-Toy Model Jeeps, Willys Special Equipment Galore, Willys History and Literature. WILLYS BLOOD Runs in My VEINS.
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SteveK
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FYI, two days ago I saw a claimed "rebuilt engine never installed" for $200 on Ebay if you're interested, and it is still there. Sorry I didn't think to copy the info at the time. Scary to hear your story and now we will all be listening for that "click sound".
SteveK
62 Dispatcher
South Florida
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glennstin
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Just thought I'd bring this topic back to the front. I decided there were too many questions about what this engine had been through. I bought a 1948 Willys 2WD Station Wagon project the restorer had given up on after doing a major start. His engine was an "Everything Done Professionally" with receipts for over 3 Grand. My Grandson and I made this a learning time and after about 3-4 in and outs we have a sweet running motor in Miss Willy DJ3A(56337-10488). Learning lessons involved external differences between a '48 2 WD Wagon and a '56 DJ3A. Some items to watch are: Starters, Flywheels, Clutch, Steel spacer between tns. / engine, front motor mounts and timing cover attachment, and still had to go old school to get timing right as marks are missing. Change 6V.to 12 V. involved more interaction with distributors. Now, Miss Willy purrs like a kitten again. Very deep in cost, but very happy with result. Anyone wants sweepings, a good running L. 134 till this all happened, it's a $100 delivered to either Stowe, VT. or Hershey, PA.
1963 CJ3B, 1962 Surrey Project, 1961 DJ3A, 1956 DJ3A, 1953 CJ3A Farm Jeep, 1949 Jeepster, 1948 Station Wagon Project, Al-Toy Model Jeeps, Willys Special Equipment Galore, Willys History and Literature. WILLYS BLOOD Runs in My VEINS.
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The CJ-2A Page has a CJ-2A Message Board.
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For CJ-5 and Dauntless V6 postings, see the Early CJ-5 Bulletin Board.
The Old Willys Forum is dedicated to wagons and pickups.
Surrey Gala and Dispatcher Jeeps are under DJ-3A Dispatcher Posts.
The M38/M38A1/M606 Preservation Group has a forum.
For other CJ and military Jeeps, see the g503 Message Boards.
See the Forward Forum for Forward Control Jeeps.
To post ads for other Willys parts or Jeeps, see the WillysTech Buy/Sell/Swap Message Board.
For tech problems with other Willys models, try the WillysTech e-mail list.
The Bantam Trailer forum covers Jeep trailers.