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| My DJ; Engine replacement | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 4 2015, 03:05 PM (1,758 Views) | |
| PWTS | Jan 4 2015, 03:05 PM Post #1 |
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Greetings from Kansas. I am new to the bulletin board and looking for help. I bought a project jeep a little over a year ago from a elderly man. It has been a dream of mine to restore an old willys for years. The Jeep I bought is a 59 DJ with serial number 56337 15606. All the normal problems have been encountered and fortunately blogs and bulletin boards like this have helped assure me that my problems are typical. Floor pans rusted out ( being replaced), 4 lug brake drums and spindle problems (still trying to figure this one out) and general frustration trying to figure out why the DJ parts aren't as easy to identify as the CJ counterparts. This weekend I hit a hurdle that has me stumped and I am looking for advice so I can decide which way to go with my project. The L-134 engine was taken into a local overhauler that knows the old flat head engines. After tearing it down, the bad news came that even though the engine was previously running, it needs a lot of work. To the point that I consider it BER. I am thinking of trying to find an engine that is more up to date that I can buy and drop down into the engine compartment without a ton of modifications to the outward appearance of the Jeep. Does anyone have any suggestions for an engine and transmission combination that fits? The cost to bring the L134 back to life is about $1700.00. Surely I can find an alternative that is cheaper. Although I would have liked to keep this project mostly original, I'm not absolutely set on it. I'm just planning to use this as a weekend driver to putt around in. Any suggestions would be a big help.................if I can't figure out a way around my brake drum issue, I may be asking if anyone can suggest a whole new chassis set up to drop the tub on to...... these oddball parts are driving me nuts |
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| oldtime | Jan 4 2015, 03:48 PM Post #2 |
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PWTS, Welcome to the CJ3B Bulletin Board ! If you don't require additional HP then I highly suggest you stay with the 134 Go-Devil engine. If additional HP is not required you will be far better off with the standard components. In general it will be much easier to locate and mate-up with original components. If you do modify then modify to meet your specific needs. I suggest you read "MODIFICATION PARAMETERS"... http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=2591 |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| PWTS | Jan 4 2015, 06:52 PM Post #3 |
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No further HP required, as i said, this is just going to be a toy for my wife and I to drive around on the weekends and evenings when it s nice out. Doubt it will ever need to hit the highways and if so, living in farm country the speedo will never need to get past 50. I'm just really beside myself due to the cost of the motor and lack of good alternatives. As most have discovered, these things aren't readily available in the local salvage yard anymore and my motor needs bored out to .060 plus turning crank, vales etc......the whole 9 yards, I just wasn't expecting such a high price tag. The motor overhaul will cost more than the jeep and all the panels/floor pans i have bought so far. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. Thanks for any and all advice or words of wisdom offered. |
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| PapaC | Jan 4 2015, 10:05 PM Post #4 |
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I just wanted to say hi and welcome. Getting to the bottom of those oddball parts has been haunting me for over two years now so you're not alone!! I 'think' before I put that much into a 60 over rebuild I'd look around first and see if there's another running go devil engine out there somewhere in better shape. I can easily see where changing types of motor would start a domino effect, pretty much like Oldtime said. Motor....radiator....mounts......transmission.....drive shaft.....column shift linkages....where would it end??? Maybe Steve can kick in and help with the drum hub issues with the substitutions he figured out for his DJ. Whatever you decide good luck!!! Charles |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| oldtime | Jan 5 2015, 11:28 AM Post #5 |
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Let's imagine that you do decide go with a different engine. In that case I will suggest finding and installing a GM 153. Technically it was a standard Jeep engine that was used on the CJ-5 Dispatcher (mail Jeeps) from 1968-1971. That installation will produce a Trans-Model Dispatcher. Read more about that engine here: http://cj3b.info/Tech/EngineSwaps.html If the engine chosen was not used by jeep then your build technically becomes a Trans-Make Dispatcher. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| PWTS | Jan 5 2015, 06:54 PM Post #6 |
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Thanks to all so far. PapaC brought up another question for me. I read one of the posts here that discussed how most if not all of the Dj jeeps had column shifts. Mine is a regular floor shift 3 speed, was this common or another one of those one off things that everyone talks about with these things? |
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| PapaC | Jan 5 2015, 09:23 PM Post #7 |
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I'm glad that you brought that up. While I do believe that the column shift was standard on most DJ's that certainly can't be said to hold true about all of them. There are quite a number of known examples that did indeed come out with the three speed floor shift instead. I'm under the impression that most of those started life out as delivery vehicles but even that is up for debate. In fact I'v got three extra T96 transmissions that came with a lot of mostly DJ specific parts. Of the three one of these T96's came with a top mounted cane shifter instead of the levers on the side for a column shift. I think Glen said it best with this post and I quote
To me that basically means you about have to play Sherlock Holmes sometimes with...not kidding...a magnifying glass...to figure out what originally was or was not there in the beginning. Especially if a specific part has been changed or is missinkg. My own dilemma began with what appeared to be factory holes around the top of my short windshield and sets of odd holes around the tub. I could tell that something used to be in the windshield holes and from the scars something besides footman loops in the holes in the tub. With help from this site we figured out that the windshield holes was for turn fasteners for the top and the holes in the side were for odd little brackets that hold a rod in place for the convertible top. Two more holes on each side was for top bow brackets and folding top bows. It took months for us to figure out what those actually looked like and how they worked!!! Charles |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| PapaC | Jan 5 2015, 10:37 PM Post #8 |
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There's lots of technical and other information here http://www.jeepsurreygala.com And lots of pictures of DJ's that have come up for sale over the past few years here. http://www.ewillys.com/category/dj3a/ Along with this site those have been invaluable to me. |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| F Bill | Jan 5 2015, 11:20 PM Post #9 |
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Jeep discovery and aquisition specialist
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Sure would like to see some pictures of this DJ, if you get a chance. Do you know the serial number of your old engine? If it is the correct engine it may be worth hanging onto. If it has already been replaced.....the decision to go with a different engine may be a good one. The way I understand it the number should start with a 3J. It is just behind the water pump on the top of the block surface. If your machinist planes the block you will lose this number, You may want to consider using both engine and transmission from whatever you decide to use as a donor. Before you get too far along you may want to check out the rear axle. It seems to be a weak point on the DJ models. If you have front axle problems already, and the rear needs work, a newer Postal Jeep set with its 5 lug setup could be the way to solve both problems. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| PWTS | Jan 7 2015, 10:03 PM Post #10 |
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All of you are great help, the amount of time I have been spending researching this is unreal. I'm sure all of you have run into the same things I've started seeing and every time I think I have something figured out, I turn a corner and hit a stop sign.........I still have the motor that came out of the jeep and I believe it is original. It is still at the rebuild shop and I will probably go get it this weekend. Will take a look at the numbers then. I have lots of pix but they are very unimpressive right now, I mainly wanted to document the sorry shape I started with on this project. Both floor pans were rotted away and are being replaced along with the support structures. Other than the tailgate, I replaced both panels on either side and the entire tailgate wrap. Still have lots of body welding/work to go. I've got the chassis completely sandblasted and painted. Replacing all steering linkages/ball joints etc. Have ordered lots of new replacement parts and restoration is in high gear except for the low last week of the call about the engine.......... This too will pass with the help and encouragement of my new found friends here on this site. I really do appreciate the advice. As soon as I get a chance to figure out how to throw some pix on this site I will. Phillip |
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| F Bill | Jan 7 2015, 11:38 PM Post #11 |
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I forgot to add that the $1700 price is actually pretty good if it includes all parts and labor and assembling your engine for you. You may be able to save some by doing the assembly yourself and shopping around for the parts, but the best savings is to find another good running used motor. They are around, and if you keep your eyes on the classified section of all the websites that deal with early jeeps you might find one pretty quickly. |
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59 convertible 15933 needs drivetrain 60 convertible 17052 has a V6 and 4WD 60 Surrey 17509 went thru Katrina and looks it. 60 Surrey 17918 started it all...Toyota axle, BW Wrecked Surrey Tub with fenders and grille 56 tub, from 11826 And a couple parts DJ's with no ID left. All my jeeps are projects....only runner is my DJ with doors.. | |
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| glennstin | Jan 8 2015, 11:25 AM Post #12 |
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Well Hello and welcome to the best sounding board for the DJ3Aa. I'm a little late to this party, but would like to add. First I don't think Colin and I had that S/N 56337 15606 previously. Your 1959 is about half way thru the production run of 1948 units. (14694-16642). If you find your engine number it should be higher than 3J162503 which we have listed in 56337 15015, a nice DJ in Texas. Thank you for giving us a shot at encouraging you with your rebuild. I'm here to push for stock, using your original block if it is buildable and the price quoted is well within reason. I just did a new engine for Miss Willy, 56337 10488. My California DJ didn't have the original block and swallowed a repaired valve seat. I found a 1948 Station Wagon unfinished project that I'm sure the machine shop charged much more than your quote. It became a great weekend Grampa / Grandson learning experience. It's hard to imagine all the differences you encounter in that L 134. From 1948 to 1956 many changes evolved and then add SW to DJ3A bolt on parts. If you source a L 134, just go very carefully. There are flywheel, starter, timing, distributor and on ----. As careful as we were, that little flathead knew its way in and out pretty well and still initial timing required old fashioned methods. Miss Willy is a happy camper now, all stock and pretty. Your '59 is a special lady. Keep her stock. Thanks again. |
| 1963 CJ3B, 1962 Surrey Project, 1961 DJ3A, 1956 DJ3A, 1953 CJ3A Farm Jeep, 1949 Jeepster, 1948 Station Wagon Project, Al-Toy Model Jeeps, Willys Special Equipment Galore, Willys History and Literature. WILLYS BLOOD Runs in My VEINS. | |
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| colin | Jan 8 2015, 01:00 PM Post #13 |
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Hi Phillip- I can only add my comments to those already provided by Charles, FBill, Old Time and Glenn. I have added the serial number for your DJ3A to the database a few minutes ago, but I would like more information and photos. Please send that to me at: colins60vette@cox.net. If you can find a good used L-134, that would be ideal, especially if it came from a CJ3A or DJ3A. You might consider looking for a good used F-head 4 cylinder Jeep engine as well. While the engine is taller than the L-134, the only real part that is taller is the carburetor and that can be remedied without cutting a hole in the hood. Late model Weber carb model 34ICH is only 4 1/2 inches in height and with a low air cleaner, should fit under the hood. The F-head gives you an increase of 12hp over the 60hp your engine now has. That engine was used from 1953-1970 in CJ3B and CJ5 Jeeps and the 2WD Willys station wagons from 1950-1962 and they bolted to the same basic transmission as the DJ3A, some with overdrive, some without. Welcome to the group! |
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| PWTS | Jan 8 2015, 09:33 PM Post #14 |
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Well, tomorrow is decision day, after all the hunting around and a lot of encouragement from all of you, I have resolved to putting humpty back together using the original engine if at all possible. I am going to meet with the guy that has the engine to review what all is needed and hopefully I can shave a little cost by providing some of the parts myself. I will report in after my visit. The ole boy doing this engine has been around forever and from what I understand years ago when his dad had this shop and he was a younger guy, they used to build a bunch of these for the dirt track racers or something like that. He does all his own machining and the price quoted is for parts and labor to turn the crank, bore it out grind valves etc. and assembly. I had 2 starters that came with the project, my son works for a company that has a starter rebuild shop so he rebuilt the starter for me. He will look over my shoulder as I rebuild the carb because in reality, he is the gearhead in the family. He did a 66 chevy pickup when he was in high school and still has it as a daily driver, now at 22 he is doing a 56 Belair. Thanks to him, he got me interested and now I'm knee deep in my little jeep. I will get the serial numbers tomorrow from the engine, glad I could add another DJ serial number to the record books. Phillip |
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| PWTS | Jan 9 2015, 05:25 PM Post #15 |
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The engine rebuild has started!!! Engine serial number is 3J175907 |
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