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| Found 9X2 brake shoes! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 8 2015, 10:02 AM (1,354 Views) | |
| SteveK | Jan 8 2015, 10:02 AM Post #1 |
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Hey guys, I finally found NEW 9X2 brake shoes for the Dj's, part #805616 on Ebay. I bought 2 pair, but it says 4 more pair should be available (5 days left), $75/pr. Ebay item: 4 pcs Brake Shoes 1956-1966 Jeep Dispatcher DJ-3A 9 x 2 inch # 805616 DJ3A Item number:251783739378 Fyi...I also saw another Willys Parts store on internet with them listed at $125/pr PLUS CORE REQUIRED!!!!...but they are available if you got the bucks!!! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| oldtime | Jan 8 2015, 10:27 AM Post #2 |
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Hmmm... A couple years ago I sold a set to jo296ro for about $25 Ya might see if he still has them. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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| PWTS | Jan 8 2015, 09:13 PM Post #3 |
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Hey Steve, I bought 4 of these also. Just placed he order yesterday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they are as advertised. Will let everyone know how they look once they arrive. |
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| SteveK | Jan 8 2015, 10:43 PM Post #4 |
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Hey Phillip, Welcome to the world of mystery around the Dj's. Lots of variations, both from the factory and dealers, and certainly so via different 'owner remedies or desires'. Sounds like you're going with the 9" brakes now if you bought the shoes. So how are the drums? I couldn't find any when I needed them. I ended up modifying some Mustang drums (on an earlier thread) to fit after four months of research every day just to come that close to a fit. I think it is apparent thru these discussions, that 'timing' and 'luck' are as much a part of a success story as anything when looking for parts. Speak up for what you need as more eyes can be better on the lookout, or someone may have something laying around unused and willing to part with it. Keep us updated, and we all love pictures. It is amazing what can be seen with different eyes...Happy Hunting! SteveK |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| SteveK | Jan 17 2015, 08:54 AM Post #5 |
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Hey PWTS, Have you received your shoes yet? I have not and the end of the estimated ETA was 1/16. I see the seller has re-posted showing more shoes available. I hope mine come today as Monday is a holiday (?) and I'm getting anxious and concerned they may be out there in a black hole somewhere. Please post when you receive yours. Thanks, SteveK |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PWTS | Jan 18 2015, 07:10 PM Post #6 |
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Sorry for the break in posting. Dang travel for work keeps getting in the way of getting to be home and playing with the Jeep. I received the shoes while I was gone last week and they look great. As advertised and hopefully this week I can actually send some quality time in the shop working on it. As for the drums......that is a different story. I was able to get the rear drums turned. The front ones haven't been so lucky yet. The face is a little "wrinkled" which isn't looking too good for a normal "here turn these down" type of operation. I am taking them in on Monday to an old friend that has a machine shop. His dad started the shop and he grew up around all the machines and welding.....if anyone can salvage the drums he can and after talking to him he thinks he may be able to straighten them out for me. Now I need a little information concerning the rear ends on the DJ. Can anyone tell me the model of rear end? Everything I've seen says it is a Dana/Spicer 27 but I haven't found a way to verify it on the rear end. Is there a numerical pattern or set of numbers I need to be looking for to identify this thing? I am wanting to open it up and check everything out but refuse to do it until I can make sure I will be able to replace pars as needed but I've got to know the model before I can figure that out. Any help is appreciated Phillip |
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| PapaC | Jan 18 2015, 11:34 PM Post #7 |
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This is a real good site with parts list, service manuals, supplements just about everything concerning specs for dj's can be found here if you look around enough. http://www.jeepsurreygala.com/?page_id=2123 Heres a breakdown of a DJ rearend. Unlike other jeeps rear end ratio is 4.56 to 1 http://www.jeepsurreygala.com/wp-content/u...12/p109-001.jpg If you're lucky it'll have a tag on it like this ![]() My 56's rear end had been replaced with a 76 pinto rear end. Waaaaay wrong. It seemed like it wanted to run 20 or 30 mph in FIRST gear, was too wide, and had the wrong stud spacing. It took me a trip to Ohio to find a correct complete rear end and a huge lot of other DJ specific parts. There's several ways even if your tag is gone to verify if your rear end ratio is correct but it's not something I can remember to recite offhand. Ps. There's mention on this thread http://z4.invisionfree.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_B...?showtopic=5425 That
Disclaimer: he never answered back when I asked if the lug spacing was the exact same so in my mind there still needs to be solid verification of that. Also note some of these DJ's probably got used pretty hard off-road back in the day (Guessing) and apparently there's a weakness involved with the axles themselves. There's lots of reports of changed rearends on these and again guessing.......probably due to axle breakage. In fact that Ohio trip netted me the internals of another DJ rearend. These guts all still appear to be in excellent condition with the exception that one of axles was twisted off right at the splines. Please report back when you have time and let us know what you find out! Charles |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Jan 19 2015, 09:20 AM Post #8 |
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I can't put my fingers on where I read it, but I found it said "Dana 23" for the Dj's...and I can see a "23" casting on the lower right flange area of my differential. At some point I also read that a 23 and a 27 are almost the same with the 27 being a later model. My Dj is a 62. OT might have some real life experience on that. The tag shown indicates ring and pinion count, so opening up the casing can verify the ratio...41 ring/9 pinion=4.56:1. Another way with a 'floating axle' like these, jack up ONE rear tire and make sure the other can not turn, mark a spot on the driveshaft, and a spot on the tire, and have someone watch and count the driveshaft revolutions while someone makes ONE full turn of the tire and the count will give you an 'approximate' ratio. By myself, I used a piece of tape with a flap extension to be able to see the revolutions while I spun the tire. In the thread referenced, I indicated my findings that the Falcon and Mustang, as well as Maverick and Comet, used the same drum for specified years, so the lug pattern is the same...4X4.5. I'm using Mustang numbers from NAPA as indicated in the pics there, and with the modifications as described. That is as close as "I" could get for new replacements. Now if I could just get my brake shoes 'delivered'... |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PWTS | Jan 19 2015, 07:29 PM Post #9 |
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I tell you guys what. This bulletin board is AWESOME!!!! The information a guy can get is so helpful. Thanks to all of you for the input. I went out today because I remembered seeing a tag like that but I hadn't taken a good look at it. Sure enough it is exactly the same as the one you took a picture of. I'm getting ready to go back out and pull the cover off and inspect the gears etc. I'm sure I need to replace bearings but everything seems to be ok so far. My problem is that I have been in aviation too long and I'm used to opening up an overhaul or repair manual and doing things by the numbers. I always like to look at the books before I rip into something and the only way you can do that is by knowing which part your working with so you can know which book to look at. My machine shop guy was able to "fix" the drums today. It is amazing what an old school guy can do when you throw up a little challenge. Let's go see what I can stir up next..... Phillip |
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| SteveK | Jan 27 2015, 09:30 AM Post #10 |
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My brake shoes were finally located in some Black Hole in a Post Office somewhere. They look great! Full coverage linings on NEW frames that are coated. KF Parts responded quickly and were very cooperative. I recomend them if you need new shoes, and no core charge either. Other parts available in their store too, and NO I do not not have any affiliation or interest in it, just happy with the vendor service and product. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| SteveK | Feb 8 2015, 09:42 AM Post #11 |
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Can anyone explain why the secondary linings are not full length for maximum friction capability? Thanks. |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Feb 9 2015, 02:30 AM Post #12 |
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I know what the general searches reveal in that in some cases the front shoe has the shortest or the longest lining, one catches first and then helps put pressure against the other shoe longer lining. (Or something like that) And this helps prevent grabbing or chattering Now here's something that complicates all of this for me and has for quite some time My first DJ's front axle had old but not worn out equal length linings on both brake shoes on each side. Total of 4 brake shoes there. Of course the rear axle was missing and had been replaced with a pinto axle so it doesn't count The front and rear DJ axles that I picked up in Ohio had been setting for who knows how long along with a bunch of other DJ stuff Both had complete sets of NEW looking brake shoes I'v got pictures somewhere, they even still had numbers on the side of the linings And I reused after installing new brake cylinders, turning the drums, etc, etc I'v to date never understood WHY these brake shoes These total of 8 shoes there and also had equal length linings on all shoes One of these days I'll pull the hubs off of the 62 and see what's luriing there Charles |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| SteveK | Feb 10 2015, 04:04 PM Post #13 |
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Thanks for your response Charles. After hours of perusing the internet and four different maintenance manuals, Chilton, Haynes, Motors, and Willys, I 've discovered there is an 'opinion' on ALL WAYS. Some are just repeating what they have seen or heard, others what they practice, and some what they were trained to do, and even manuals with conflicting information between pictures and words used, but no obvious conclusions, and little associated to specific designs. With the mis-use and mixing up of terms, it is hard to conclude exactly what was being said, and why, or for what system. A majority of chat room conversation, and later model repair manuals seem to agree that the 'design' requiring 'transfer of power/energy' to the rear shoe, dictates the longer shoe lining (and power assist too). Older model systems seem to favor the front shoe with the longer lining, and of course are mechanical with many different designs including multiple wheel cylinders and sizes used on the same wheel. MY OPINION, worth half what you paid for it, after studying various pictures and diagrams, and remembering how I was trained by and worked with a Master Mechanic in the 60's/70's, stays with the theory of 'front shoes longer' and here's why...Our Dj Bendix design is a 'floating' design, without any transfer or pivot pins connecting the shoe movements. Each shoe is pushed by the wheel cylinder, and yes receives inertia forces, but only has 'push/pressure' from the wheel cylinder. Therefore, the front shoe is 'doing most of the work requiring a bigger lining, just like the front wheels are doing most of the braking and require bigger cylinders than the rear wheel cylinders, for an even stop. The Master Mechanic also used to say, the reason for the smaller shoes in the rear was twofold. To let the front lining do the stopping to prevent chatter, and also he claimed they were made of different material to 'disapate heat' from the front linings. If we think about our design further, we have the 60 degree ports pointing directly to the front half of the wheel cylinder implying to me 'maximum force' where it is needed/desired. Maybe that is just me. I would love to hear from OT or any other experienced Willys expert for their opinion. Thanks for any feedback or experiences shared! |
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SteveK 62 Dispatcher South Florida | |
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| PapaC | Feb 10 2015, 11:22 PM Post #14 |
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There's one thing I can comment on. Learn and know the individual characteristics of the acceleration and the limits of the braking on each car you drive. Know in advance how much pressure and length of brake pedal travel you need to stop without going into a uncontrolled skid. Learn exactly how much distance it takes to come to a dead stop from any given speed. Commit this to your muscle memory. What will you do if your brakes fail unexpectedily? Will you remember to pull your emergency brake all the while looking for a way to safely swerve around if the situation permits? A proper braking system should fall into the safe classifications and perimeters to drive comfortably. If not, it's not that hard to go back into them and figure out what's wrong. Most of all I think is remember these are not modern computer controlled power brakes. Taking the time to relearn the skills needed to operate them safely can save yours or someone else's life. Charles |
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Charles Tate....North Mississippi 1956 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible Doing ground up nuts and bolt restoration by almost entirely reconditioning original used or a few NOS DJ3A parts. 1962 WILLYS DJ3A Convertible. (For research and parts only) | |
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| oldtime | Feb 11 2015, 07:53 PM Post #15 |
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Steve, I don't have much of an opinion on this topic. Except that the brake shoe lining length and positioning is relative to the brake design. I don't need an opinion here for we have concise albeit limited limited data to go on. Unless proven to be in default Willys Motors Inc. is the final authority on the early DJ series. Prior to 1960 the DJ brakes in particular are not mentioned in the Universal Service Manual (USM) The 1960 and later manuals clearly indicate that some vehicles were equipped with a larger fore-ward shoe lining. It's obvious to me they were implying the DJ series. In he 1963 and 1965 USM's Willys Motors clearly shows figure diagrams of the DJ brackes. From those figures one can clearly see that the longer shoe lining on the DJ series was positioned foreward. That positioning remains true regardless of the DJ' specific vintage. |
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Currently building my final F-134 powered 3B . Rock Crawler using factory parts from the Willys Motors era (1953-1963) http://s4.zetaboards.com/CJ3B_Bulletin_Board/topic/30228766/1/#new | |
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3:53 AM Jul 11