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Games and Stuff; Gaming talk, and so forth...
Topic Started: Oct 18 2004, 05:49 AM (230,199 Views)
Yue
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Veteran
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I got Phantasy Star Universe! It's actually pretty good. I can't understand a thing anyone says, but it's fun at least!
When I say you are a monster,
When I set fire to your name,
It does not matter where they hear it from,
Whether truth or lies, it gets said all the same!
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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X.x Humans NEED towers. Badly.
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MFD
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THIEF!
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So, on FFVII I'm at the Midgar Raid near the end of Disc 2.

AVALANCHE is the worst rebel faction EVAR.

RUFUS: So, I have a plan to destroy Meteor by ramming it with a fuckton of Materia.
AVALANCHE!: Shinra's doing something! Better stop it!

Later...

CLOUD: Well, their plan failed.
BARRET: I was kinda hoping it would work...
MFD: Well, then maybe we shouldn't have stolen their fucking AMMO!
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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Well that was fun.

Apparently I'm really skilled at gathering resources, 'cuz I keep getting awarded for it on a highly populated server>.>
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Vortex
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Master
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No.... Humans don't. Humans need Flux. Lots of flux. If your commander isn't getting you electrical weapons early, kick him quick. Once most of your team are hosing enemies down, then you can think about getting hunters bows which own bigtime. The horde are good, but the trick to humans is using the right weapons.
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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No way. You want lotsa structures, catapults, and balistas :P

I saw lotsa structures literally being surrounded by arrow towers.

Didn't FZ mention how human weapons simply don't match Hoarde?

I mean yeah, you want a line of gunmen, no doubt about that, but thats not where you should be focusing your resources into.

edit: well, arrow/mortar, obviously.
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Vortex
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Master
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I played that for a LONG time since release. Flux isn't as godly as it used to be, but pulse almost is. If you think turtling is the way to go, prepare to lose HARD to a decent set of horde. You need electricity, and then a choice of either kinetic for the repeater or the hunters bow if you've got a load of decent marksmen. Turtling gets you killed VERY VERY quickly.
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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MFD,Sep 7 2006
05:31 AM
So, on FFVII I'm at the Midgar Raid near the end of Disc 2.

AVALANCHE is the worst rebel faction EVAR.

RUFUS: So, I have a plan to destroy Meteor by ramming it with a fuckton of Materia.
AVALANCHE!: Shinra's doing something! Better stop it!

Later...

CLOUD: Well, their plan failed.
BARRET: I was kinda hoping it would work...
MFD: Well, then maybe we shouldn't have stolen their fucking AMMO!

Yeah, they're real dumb like that.

Maybe the reasoning behind it just got poorly translated?
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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Tell you what Vor. You could be right. I am, after all, rather novice as far as RTS games go. However, just because you say it doesn't make it true. Would you care to provide an example as to how the hoarde could counter such a tactic? Don't forget that the humans have the advantage as far as resource production, construction, and ranged combat. It's only logical that the humans would then want to defend and fortify their position so that they can better take advantage of their resource collecting abilities. A line of trained marksmen should probably be used to to cover the structures at a gap and keep the hoarde away, and a few nomads/chaplain should probably be kept around to keep defenses in repair, but other than that... I think its pretty clear that, yes, the human force is designed for turtling.

Oh and my biggest complaint for this game is that I keep having to mash the mouse button. Couldn't the game be designed so that if you hold the button down, you'll automatically attack repeatedly? That and resource production could be made more fun...

edit: I totally have ideas for the structure using system. I mean, near as I can see by default the only structure you can enter is the stronghold/garrison type buildings. I, personally, think that all the other buildings could be turned into some kind of minigame for the units if they enter them(perhaps crafting the various tools used), providing some sort of advantage for the team if they do well. In fact, with a larger map and a broader scope, plenty of elements of an rpg, such as skill systems and central markets could be added, but thats a Squidi esque idea there, so I'll just stop there.
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Vortex
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Master
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You turltle, resources that would otherwise be used to keep you in the arms race are lost. Then, you lose. The hoard, who have got their seige weapons quicker than you, and with little powerful enough to stop them, they'll shell you from afar, and pop. You lose. The key to this is a decent command, and staying mobile. Resource denial is key. And no. Neither team has an edge with resource collection. That, early game is up to the players, those that aren't designated as harassers. Towers are all very good, but the minute the horde gets summoners they're as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Oh, and next time you're in game, try pressing R, I think it is. Either that or E.
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Arc
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Sage
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(Q)_< I must agree, summoners are freaking walking midget artillery, but I did notice that the humans freaking ran right up to our ogres (resulting in much smash and crunch)
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Bob
 
Don't worry, if the Bison ever take over the midlands Godzilla will take care of them. Just like he did with Bambi.
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Algasir
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Green hair!
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Veemon,Sep 6 2006
10:11 PM
I got Phantasy Star Universe! It's actually pretty good. I can't understand a thing anyone says, but it's fun at least!

I've been wanting to try that. How much different is it from Phantasy Star Online 1&2?
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Immolation
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Eternal Flame
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Arc,Sep 7 2006
12:55 PM
(Q)_< I must agree, summoners are freaking walking midget artillery, but I did notice that the humans freaking ran right up to our ogres (resulting in much smash and crunch)

How hard is it to get into this?
"How much time do you need?"
"Whatever you can get me. When the EMP goes off-"
"When it goes off, I'll be fine. It only affects computers, remember? And I, am a motherfucking ghost"
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Arc
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Sage
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(Q)_< Not really, I just joined balancing out the teams


EDIT:Nevermind about what I said about needing SEP2, strangely enough I downloaded 3 again and it cames as an installer instead of a zip this time....(X)_x Im going insane
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Bob
 
Don't worry, if the Bison ever take over the midlands Godzilla will take care of them. Just like he did with Bambi.
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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Actually, you know what? I completely misunderstood the purpose of the spires from their description. I was arguing from the stand point that, when combined with other facets of the human workers(and yes, Savages DO attack quicker, and are thus able to mine more resources), the fact that the humans had such structures at ALL where the horde didn't was a good indication as to the intended strategy of the human population. Of course you could never rely on pure turtling, or a pure rush(well almost never a pure rush :rolleyes:), I was simply saying the humans had a general trend towards defense. The fact that Horde gets those too makes this somewhat harder to prove, but meh.

edit: Oh yeah, and as per the original version of this post pre-back button, thanks for the tip about r button. It seems a bit slower than you can potentially do manually, but I guess its nice that its there.
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Forever Zero
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The REAL internet rage machine
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In a Beast versus Human game, I've yet to see the humans win. Leap is just a HUGE advantage, letting the Beasts get to prime spawn points and resource points faster then the opposition, as well as quickly closing the gap and limiting the humans to use their long range weapons as effectivly as possible. Also, other then that, the main difference I can see is that the Beasts seem to rely more on close range and rush attacks, while the humans seem better at long range and fortifying themselves. Spires seem to die faster then Guard Towers meaning that Beastman infantry is the best weapon against assaults, and the Humans get weapons a lot nastier and more powerful then the Beastmen Magic.

However, I find the Human Artillary (Catapults and Ballista) to be much more effective then the Beast Artillary (Summoners and Behemoths). So if given enough time, the Humans can make a bunch of artillary and really go to town on enemy bases. Behemoths are too big and slow (They make nice, big fat targets for heavy Human weaponry and artillery), and the Summoners are too frail, in my opinion.

Of course, the Beastmen get the Mist Shroud/Sacrafice Combo, letting you enact the Palestinian Strategy which I find extremely effective at taking out Workers and weakened buildings.
"It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane."
- Philip K. Dick
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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... FZ's analysis kicks ours asses.

... I'd be ashamed, but meh, I hadn't encountered the Mist Shroud/Sacrifice deal to have an example, although it certainly explains alot.

edit: Ahh, camoflauge and kamikazi tactics. Yeah, good tactics.
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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Well, there's the opening scene more or less done for my game.


And, dammit, I'm writing this thing now like I would if I were making it into a webcomic. Is that a bad sign?
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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Arc
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Sage
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
(Q)_< Apocogenisis sign


And today on the Evo US server it was going towards the humans mostly, on a very fine line but it seemed the humans were doing pretty good. I think it was just a matter of everyone subconciously dividing themselves between laboring and soldiers. And not having an idiot for a commander and on that note I think I might want to take a detailed look at that part incase it all comes down to my er, leadership skills *cough*WEREFUCKINGSCREWED*cough*
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Bob
 
Don't worry, if the Bison ever take over the midlands Godzilla will take care of them. Just like he did with Bambi.
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Forever Zero
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The REAL internet rage machine
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I played it a LOT last night, so I've seen pretty much every power for both sides, and in a game that ran long (It basically became a stalemate/siege of the Beastmen against a Human Turtle strategy), I had a lot of time to play around with the Beastmen, at least.

Their Mana Crystal is good at giving them long range equality, since they can get a high end power and slowly charge it with the crystal when they run out (Where as when a Human runs out of ammo, they either need to pray for an ammo drop or just buy another gun), cycling in and out of battle as some recharge. However, this is more of a balance tool for the fact that on a whole, the Human guns are more powerful, and more practical then the Beastman variants. The Mist Shroud (Invisibility)/ Sacrafice (Kamikaze explosion) combo was the most effective one I found, and my use of it won us the round (I was able to weaken and blast their Chemical Factorium, ending their use of Mortars and Launchers they'd been using to great effect). However, other then these three powers and Frenzy (Temporary infinite stamina practically, which lets you leap indefinitly, good for a melee assault), their other four items are pretty useless. Their long range magic as well is weaker and more worthless then the Human's guns (Their low end ones are weak or hard to aim, and their high end ones are powerful but VERY hard to aim), so their best bet for range is either Summoners, or to just scrap it and take their Melee powers (Venomous, Carnivore, and one other I can't remember: All three of which make you more effective in melee). Since in melee is where they really shine anyway, you largly see Beastman armies leaping into melee to carve up foes whenever possible.

The main Beastman weakness is at range they can get chewed up before getting close by a focused and skilled Human force (Skilled teams armed with Flux Guns and Repeaters can literally tear apart charging armies of Beastmen before they ever reach melee), and the fact that the Beastman Artillary is far inferior to the Human equivelent (Where as all Human artillary is longe range and durable, the long range Beastman artillary is very frail, and the melee Beastman artillary is a giant, walking target). Also, Beastmen seem to have weaker towers and slower building ability, meaning that they are much better if they can gain the offense early on and never let it go, keeping the Humans contained and not letting them get close enough to assault your frail bases.

Next time I play, I play on giving the Humans another shot or two.
"It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane."
- Philip K. Dick
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