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Games and Stuff; Gaming talk, and so forth...
Topic Started: Oct 18 2004, 05:49 AM (230,052 Views)
MFD
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THIEF!
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Alright, then. With nicknames since everyone else did. Well, nickname. I went around loading Arc with white spells, and finally purchasing the rest of Refia's black spells (couldn't afford two level three spells). Everyone's level 14. Thankfully the number of spells is dependent on class and level separately, not class level. So, Arc has the same amount of spells as Refia.

Mike (gimme a break, Luneth is a lousy name!) the Thief (level 14), wieldng two Spark Daggers.
Arc the White Mage (level 3), wielding a Fire Staff and an Ice Staff.
Refia the Black Mage (level 12), wielding a Killer Bow and 80 Iron Arrows.
Ingus the Warrior (level 9), wielding a Viking Axe and a Serpent Sword.

Looking ahead (yes, I specialize in one class per crystal, or try to, as was the case with Arc), I think I'll pick out Fire Crystal classes now from online.

Ingus the Knight (duh).
Arc the Scholar. 'Cause he's a NERD.
Refia the Ranger. She's already good with a bow.
Mike (Luneth) the White Mage. Hey, FUCK Geomancers. Except Mog, his worked. I don't need this random shit.
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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I'm reading a book about game architecture and design. Truly fascinating stuff. It talks about gameplay as an optional feature. The main thing it talks about is fun, and it states that this is your overall intent. Screw unnecessary gameplay. It just detracts from your original vision.


Also, it discusses what the term gameplay even means. Ultimately, it boils down to strategy and tactics. What's the difference? One is long term, the other short term. I forget which is which. In any case, any good designer that wants gameplay has to provide choices and strategy in their game in order for it to be a success.

However, they must avoid dominance. There are two kinds of this. A dominant strategy is the kind that is always going to be used. A dominated strategy will never be used. The first kind is the worst, because it negates the need for the other strategies. The decisions made by the player must have some effect on them, like, should I have my red mage heal someone, cast a fire spell, or straight out attack? Each has their own strengths and weakness, and none of them could be considered a dominant strategy, because the player has to make a judgement call rather than relying on something that always works. That is what gameplay is: Forcing a player to make judgement calls at any given time as to what the correct action should be.


Further, it talks about how there are few games that switch between sides. I would like to remedy this somewhat at some point. It is a good idea, and presents a great deal of strategy to the player...


Like I said, fascinating stuff. I've already learned a lot from it.
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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Arc
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Sage
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Drekal,Dec 28 2006
08:33 AM
Screw unnecessary gameplay. It just detracts from your original vision.

That's RIGHT! No mindless go fetch quest! for 30 levels...*twitch*
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Bob
 
Don't worry, if the Bison ever take over the midlands Godzilla will take care of them. Just like he did with Bambi.
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MFD
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THIEF!
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I would like to say that the Goron Mines are the most tightly wrought and fun dungeon I've ever played in.
Oceans rise, empires fall

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If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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Phew, yeah. But here's a hint for you.


If you get Vertigo, don't go into first person mode while upside down with the boots on. :P
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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MFD
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THIEF!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Point taken.

Anyways, update:

... Still at the foot of the Tower of Owen.

And I'm about to make my way to the northern province in Hyrule. Something-nayru.
Oceans rise, empires fall

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If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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Drekal, the vast majority of people SUPPORT the existance of dominant strategies though. These people will even go out of their way to use their influence to manipulate the rules and rig them for a dominant strategy. If you don't believe me, visit Smash Boards and browse around for at least a minute. If you don't see praise for wavedashing and demands for its return, look again. The fact is, evolution teaches people to cheat, steal, and "play to win". I mean we all need to eat to survive right? I don't know, I've always been big into competition, but to improve myself, not to to dominate at all costs or to intentionally hurt others, as is mainstream. I'm out for myself first, but I see no need not the be charitable if I somehow become rich(provided the person in question hasn't recently betrayed me). I consider myself to be a gracious winner and a mostly gracious loser. I don't know. People from that category irk me to no end.

What you say about games is in some ways true. Games do not always need strategy however I am tempted to say that those are not games. I, personally, do not find fun WITHOUT strategy, except in specific scenarios. Or rather, not guising itself as games. RPGs like Final Fantasythat have a plot have merit to me, but as stories and not games. Still, casinos claim to be games, as do some interactive fiction. *shrugs*

Allow me to elaborate on strategy and tactics. The way I've always looked at it is that ones "strategy" is their overall plan. The "tactics" are the individual steps. Of course, arguably "tactics" is infinitely reducable(any action no matter how simple can be broken up into parts) so the terms ARE interchangable. Hrm... that makes me think.

Anyways this totally belongs in game theory or something.
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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Yes it does, and so, further discussion shall be moved there. :^_^:
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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Dan 9410
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Councilor
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So, uh, I decided to put this here, as Kingdom of Loathing isn't *really* a MMORPG.

First KoL player to post here is going to get a buffalo blade gifted to them. I just replaced it, and it's a pretty good weapon, so....

Oh, and if you're wondering what it does, here's the description straight from the game:


buffalo blade

This is a buffalo blade. It's not, as you might assume from the name, a blade from a buffalo. It's actually a blade from a chicken, seasoned to make it taste like a buffalo. Zesty!

Type: weapon (2-handed sword)
Power: 120
Muscle Required: 45
Selling Price: 125 Meat.

Enchantment:
Muscle +5
+3 Hot Damage
+2 Sleaze Damage
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But no wonder she did not bother with a husband. Her bananas were obviously good enough for her. - Decades of Darkness Chapter 97
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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Is it even MMO? Got it pointed out to me quite awhile back that the MMO thread only applied to MMOs, not all RPGs in general. :P
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Dan 9410
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Well, I mean, there's a chat, and PVP, although thats more comperation of stats than a proper battle. And you can trade and join clans and all that, but yeah, I don't consider it a true MMO.
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But no wonder she did not bother with a husband. Her bananas were obviously good enough for her. - Decades of Darkness Chapter 97
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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You've just listed all the characteristics that seperate mmos from other rpgs.


Good job with that.X.x
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Dan 9410
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Hmm.... The more I think about it, the more MMO-like it seems....

I think the main reason I don't consider it a MMO is because you can't form parties.

Stupid reason, I know, but it still doesn't feel like a true MMO...
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But no wonder she did not bother with a husband. Her bananas were obviously good enough for her. - Decades of Darkness Chapter 97
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MikePB
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Geekomancer
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KoL is fun... I'm a Disco Bandit :P


I feel so moxious ;)
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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I bet a party system is in the plans. Priston Tales didn't have parties at first, but it was added in. Nobody will USE it except at early levels mind, but few games go without party systems now.
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MFD
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THIEF!
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I like a game with possible outcomes, though there is something to be said where you learn a variety of skills to have them come together to accomplish a difficult task.

(Learning goat wrangling, then sumo wrestling, then learning about the magnetic properties of the ore in the Goron Mines and your Iron Boots... and then combining it all to fight the guardian of the bow.)
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
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GAH. Spoiler warnings/text please?
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Drekal
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Birthday Ninja
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You like that boss, then?
My favourite one is... wow, probably the fourth dungeon one. It was hard, but kinda cool. Then again they were all pretty awesome.
That which holds the image of an angel...
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Amy: You do have a plan, don't you?
Doctor: Of course I do!

New Objective: Think of a plan.
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Juron Pilo
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Sage
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Meh, whatever. Not like I didn't learn how to do that from Wind Waker.

Ahh I remember when I tried to use that iron boots/hookshot thing to take down a mech in the fight tourney based on the WW version. I still say that was one of the single greatest arguing points ever.
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Zap Rowsdower
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The artist formerly known as Randomlurker
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Having gotten through the first two dungeons of Twilight Princess and read spoilers beforehand, I found it just as good as I expected, but with some comments, spoilertexted when appropriate.

1. Link now has the GAYEST MOTION I HAVE EVER SEEN. Maybe they were trying to realisticly portratray how someone in a skirt runs and jumps, but....
2. Midna is one ANNOYING queen of the damned. You'd think somone cursed and banished by the gods'd be at least POLITE to the champion of those who were, I dunno, IN CHARGE OF SAID CURSE/BANISHMENT. That and her voice make me long for Navi.
3. Is it just me, or are a lotta problems appearently caused by Ocarina Link having not been there to fufil commitments and such?
"Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Otto von Bismarck
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