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| Games and Stuff; Gaming talk, and so forth... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 18 2004, 05:49 AM (229,997 Views) | |
| Juron Pilo | Feb 20 2007, 01:58 PM Post #28401 |
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Sage
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There isn't one!
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| Drekal | Feb 20 2007, 02:12 PM Post #28402 |
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Birthday Ninja
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Imagination. The technology available. A budget. You know, the same basic parameters that stop games for any system being fun. |
That which holds the image of an angel...![]() Amy: You do have a plan, don't you? Doctor: Of course I do! New Objective: Think of a plan. | |
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| Juron Pilo | Feb 20 2007, 02:19 PM Post #28403 |
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Sage
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...
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| Arc | Feb 20 2007, 03:22 PM Post #28404 |
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Sage
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*beats JP over the head with a rubber chicken then walks calmly away* |
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| Gnarl | Feb 20 2007, 06:02 PM Post #28405 |
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Evil Bureaucrat
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Why I Hate Fantasy RPGs. A very interesting read, that I partly agree with and partly don't. |
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| mordain | Feb 20 2007, 06:05 PM Post #28406 |
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Codewalker
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But you like Sci-fi games... so it's okay if they're space-wolves? *shot* |
| Live and learn - or die and teach by example. | |
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| Arc | Feb 20 2007, 06:08 PM Post #28407 |
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Sage
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*puts away mass driver* That's space VOLES! *shot* |
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| Gnarl | Feb 20 2007, 06:08 PM Post #28408 |
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Evil Bureaucrat
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I can't think of any Sci-Fi RPGs off the top of my head... Except for Fallout, and Fallout always has a backdoor that lets you pick the lock, or hell, kill the old man and take his key. Except for one place in Fallout 2, where you have to get an activation key from a cargo hold full of monsters. That part pissed me off to no end, because my Charisma/Sneak wasn't designed for combat, and it was full of bugs and mutants that apparently see through stealth... |
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| Arc | Feb 20 2007, 06:10 PM Post #28409 |
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Sage
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I hate games that give you stealth...then a plethora of enemies that have a 3rd eye |
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| mordain | Feb 20 2007, 06:14 PM Post #28410 |
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Codewalker
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I don't remember many quests like the one he describes for FFXII in the games I've played. Then again, I'm probably really good at forgetting stuff like that, and the last RPG I played was Suikoden V... which was actually pretty straightforward with keeping the plot moving forward with minimal sidetracks (except picking up optional characters). |
| Live and learn - or die and teach by example. | |
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| Iyestorm | Feb 20 2007, 06:19 PM Post #28411 |
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Sage
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Well... what are RPGs supposed to do? If you start out high-level in an RPG, then everything dies in one hit, and battles aren't challenging. Either that or the high-level moves you start out with stop working as you go higher. ...On the other hand, there's the status effects, the 1HKOs that don't work, and the upgrades of spells, not to mention the spells that level up when you do. I guess you could start out high level and with a bunch of stuff... but... Huh... I keep deciding different answers on this. What do you guys thing: Is it possible to start out high-level in an RPG and still have fun, or would it be too much like a godmode/infinite ammo cheat in a shooting game? |
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Dr. Wiley has surrendered. Mega Man has saved the planet from destruction. But will it last!!! "Think about it, mate: legends! When has a legend ever not been true, huh? HUH?!" --Marine, Sonic Rush Adventure "Good Morniii--AGH! I can't do it! I don't wanna be cute! I wanna be a boy!" --Ouran High School Host Club; Haruhi's English Voice Actor messing around. | |
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| mordain | Feb 20 2007, 06:23 PM Post #28412 |
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Codewalker
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RPGs are about the story, to me. Fighting is something to do in the meantime, that's why it's generally more simplistic combat than other games. Starting out at max level could work, but then there'd be no sense of progression, and no reason why you couldn't just beat the final boss' ass in the beginning. |
| Live and learn - or die and teach by example. | |
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| Alphawolf55 | Feb 20 2007, 06:32 PM Post #28413 |
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Sage
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You could have a mixture like Zelda. |
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<img src="http://i1.endoftheinter.net/i/n/8f19b90f194b8c7e52fc31ec2cbbcb78/cookie monster smile.gif" /> I dare you to look at this and not smile at least a little. | |
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| Gnarl | Feb 20 2007, 06:54 PM Post #28414 |
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Evil Bureaucrat
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In the Pen and Paper RPG Exalted, you start off as a Solar Exalted, beings created by the Unconquered Sun to manage the Gods and keep all of Creation in line. In sheer firepower, you're second to none, and even the most powerful demons of hell (Known as Yozis) can be summoned and bound to an Exalted. Exalted can become more powerful over time, but they start off able to take on entire armies of mortals. The things that threaten them are beings of equal power (Abyssal Exalted, Sidereal Exalted, Lunar Exalted), or beings of slightly lesser power that work together (Terrestrial Exalted), or even outside forces that work to tear apart creation (The Fair Folk and The Wyld, a force literally tearing apart reality at the edges of Creation and working it's way in). Storylines involve massive wars, slaying Gods and kingdoms, returning the Exalted to power (The Terrestrial Exalted are currently in power, because there's about 100 Solars and 10,000 Terrestrials), stopping Fair Folk invasions, and the like. |
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| Grandmaster Jogurt | Feb 20 2007, 07:26 PM Post #28415 |
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Too few posts for a custom title
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(note that I haven't read the article yet; I'm so far just responding to what's been said here) Progression isn't necessary for games in general, though (Super Mario Bros. is a wonderful example of a series like that that a lot of people enjoy), and I don't see any reason why it needs to be necessary in story-heavy games. If the story is what's important, why does it matter if the gameplay filler is closer to DDR or Progress Quest? I guess you could say that the whole reason for the filler style of gameplay is so you become more involved with the characters and plot, and I guess character progression might help that. As for why you can't just beat the boss, let's look at Disgaea. The character of Laharl doesn't grow much in physical or magical power during the story; the only power he noticably gains in is political. The biggest change he goes through is in character, and I'd be willing to bet he'd be just as capable of going "RAR BLOW UP FLEET" as soon as he took some coffee after waking up in the beginning. Yet in the game itself, Laharl and co. go up as many orders of magnitude in power as people in most RPGs go up linearly (in case that came out confusing, I mean 10 to 10,000,000 vs 10 to 60). Was that kind of power progression at all necessary for the story? I would honestly say no. |
![]() 100+7 Nothing but goodness could come from two friends getting naked | |
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| mordain | Feb 20 2007, 08:06 PM Post #28416 |
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Codewalker
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Except as far as actual gameplay goes, Disgaea is one of the worst about the huge-ass level/gear grind. ![]() (Point to cutscenes all you want, Laharl having the ability to blow up fleets really doesn't matter at all when you're playing the game) And I didn't say it wouldn't work, I just stated that there's no progression. I personally like the feeling of progression, and don't really have an issue with killing wolves at first to work your way up to stronger enemies (the quantity of level grinding required to progress the plot is a balance issue). Retarded sidequests and overly complicated ways of opening doors are another issue entirely. Starting out powerful is fun and all, I'm not denying that. But what do you DO when you can blow up galaxies? Being super-strong leaves very few enemies that can pose a challenge, and nothing after that; unless the fights are very, very long, the game becomes rather short. Which might not be a bad thing if you're tired of long RPGs, but it also lacks the replay value of other genres. Although it would be interesting to see if an RPG that was nothing but a string of boss fights would do well at all. |
| Live and learn - or die and teach by example. | |
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| Gnarl | Feb 20 2007, 08:17 PM Post #28417 |
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Evil Bureaucrat
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There have been Adventure games like that (Shadow of the Colossus off the top of my head) that have done well. It depends on the RPG format. If you cheat in Metal Saga, a Final Fantasy type game (And by cheat, I mean go to the last city in the game at level 10, buy all the best gear (You get the money by gambling), and then go back and curb-stomp the rest of the game), the game basically works like that since Bounties (Bosses) are the only enemies strong enough to even hurt you. It's okay, but it can be somewhat tedious because the gameplay doesn't really promote that style. On the other hand, if it was something like World of Warcraft where you have movement and groups, I could see a game that was nothing but boss fights working. Imagine if all the instances dropped the trash, and added twice as many bosses with lots of tricks and complications in the fights? I'd do it, since the reason I go to an instance is for the boss fights anyway. |
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| Grandmaster Jogurt | Feb 20 2007, 08:31 PM Post #28418 |
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Too few posts for a custom title
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Exactly! While changing the game so that there was no leveling up/powering of items would've indeed changed the gameplay a lot, it wouldn't have made the game work with the story any less; in fact, it probably would've helped in that regard.
Fair enough. If it's just you liking something that some guy hates, that's not so much an argument as different tastes.
Depends how you use the term "replay value". It may make the game longer, but there are several times that I've avoided replaying a game because I didn't want to trudge through the boring parts to get to the good ones again. |
![]() 100+7 Nothing but goodness could come from two friends getting naked | |
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| mordain | Feb 20 2007, 08:41 PM Post #28419 |
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Codewalker
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But... but... Meh, it's really a matter of opinion. (yes, I deleted my previous post. I don't want to argue) |
| Live and learn - or die and teach by example. | |
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| MikePB | Feb 20 2007, 08:41 PM Post #28420 |
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Geekomancer
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That's a good point, actually. I enjoy replaying FF4 a lot because while it might be a shorter game, to me, it's all about the story. On the other end, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, while fun and TONS of post-game content... once the story was done, I kinda lost interest in it. |
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My Writing Blog **************
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1:54 PM Jul 11