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Games and Stuff; Gaming talk, and so forth...
Topic Started: Oct 18 2004, 05:49 AM (230,730 Views)
MFD
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THIEF!
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Juron Pilo,Nov 15 2005
04:57 PM

How do you know they didn't grab the info before the game started? Barrett is pretty clear that drawing mako energy is killing the planet.

It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that he's not crazy and that he actually knows what he is talking about.
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If the world says it's time to go
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Juron Pilo
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I havn't played most castlevania games. I refuse to acknowledge Mario because the plot is completely superfluous. You have yet to prove much of a bloody rampage for the CT characters. Last I saw, most of the things they fought were monsters(you could make an arguement for monster rights but this is a flaw that spans the entire fantasy genre and we can hardly blame CT for it).
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ShadowWarriorLuke
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mordain,Nov 15 2005
08:51 PM
Am I the only person out there who thinks that a game WITHOUT a strong (or even existant) romantic plotline is a good thing?

Nope. Ever play Wild ARMs 3? No real love story to talk of there (unless you count Clive's family) and that's a pretty solid game (although it doesn't really pick up till later on).

On the other hand, there's some love stories that can keep you interested. Take Shadow Hearts for example. The ending to the first one and how it ties into the second.

I hate Sephiroth, but I hate Kefka even more. There was too little motive to his character. All we got was a line from Cid (I think it was Cid) saying that he went mad from being experimented on. Plus he never fought like a man and ran away when things got too bad. I'm not saying they should have Sephiroth'd him and made him overly uber, but he was just so... weak.

And that laugh pisses me off.

IX is one of my favourites in terms of villainry, what with the sheer manipulation of everyone not on Zidane's side. Every villain thought they had the others under their control. Although Necron appearing out of nowhere? Pfft. A friend of mine has a theory that the destruction of the crystal is supposed to symbolise the end of FF games in that style, and from looking at X and XII, he's probably right.

One last thing. Yuna and Rikku in KHII? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I hate Yuna AND Rikku. Hedy fucking Buress is a terrible VA and Rikku's bounciness is on the same level of annoying as Ultros' idiotic catchphrases.
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Alan Bates
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So, are you saying that killing intelligent monster such as the kind in Cronor Trigger are different than killing intelligent humans?

Chronor Trigger makes a point that the monster Ozzie and Magus lead are actual people that want a place in the world. You can talk to them and they have a town and civilization of their own.

Ultimaltye, I think that's your hang up in this dicusssion. The Shinra are humans.

Now would it be different if the Shinra were monsters that were draining the life energy of the Planet off and essentially running the world?
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Juron Pilo
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No, I'm not. At least not to me. Problem is its something very accepted in lots of fiction and that I have no control over. It has to do with a metaphor and good and evil that just doesn't really exist in the real world.
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Alan Bates
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So, now you're arguing against the metaphor or good an evil, or are you saying geniune god and evil don't exist in the real world?
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Juron Pilo
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Um.... both? I'm not sure I understand the first option.
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Alan Bates
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Sorry. Typo. "The metaphor OF good and evil"
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Juron Pilo
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I'm still not entirely sure how one goes about arguing against a metaphor.
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Alan Bates
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Well, never mind that for now then. If we must we'll get back to it.

Now, you've agreed that there is no pure good and pure evil, so that means you're left with flawed people.

Now, do you accept that some people are organizations are more good or evil than others?
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Newb
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The Obfuscated One
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ShadowWarriorLuke,Nov 15 2005
06:11 PM
mordain,Nov 15 2005
08:51 PM
Am I the only person out there who thinks that a game WITHOUT a strong (or even existant) romantic plotline is a good thing?

Nope. Ever play Wild ARMs 3? No real love story to talk of there (unless you count Clive's family) and that's a pretty solid game (although it doesn't really pick up till later on).

On the other hand, there's some love stories that can keep you interested. Take Shadow Hearts for example. The ending to the first one and how it ties into the second.

I hate Sephiroth, but I hate Kefka even more. There was too little motive to his character. All we got was a line from Cid (I think it was Cid) saying that he went mad from being experimented on. Plus he never fought like a man and ran away when things got too bad. I'm not saying they should have Sephiroth'd him and made him overly uber, but he was just so... weak.

And that laugh pisses me off.

IX is one of my favourites in terms of villainry, what with the sheer manipulation of everyone not on Zidane's side. Every villain thought they had the others under their control. Although Necron appearing out of nowhere? Pfft. A friend of mine has a theory that the destruction of the crystal is supposed to symbolise the end of FF games in that style, and from looking at X and XII, he's probably right.

One last thing. Yuna and Rikku in KHII? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I hate Yuna AND Rikku. Hedy fucking Buress is a terrible VA and Rikku's bounciness is on the same level of annoying as Ultros' idiotic catchphrases.

The romantic bits of games always seem boring to me. I much prefer the whole childhood friends relationship for games; seems much more interesting, and somehow it feels more powerful if bad stuff happens.

And yes, most villains are stupid when you break them down into their basic components or phrase them the right way, but you can take a stupid idea and do it well, or a great idea and do it badly. The concept behind something is not always a good argument. This being my opinion, I will agree that they didn't explain Kefka well enough.

And of course you liked IX.

It was the pure distilled awesome that they had lost in a warehouse somewhere during the production of the second half of seven and all of eight, combined with the awesome that they had already set aside for 9, it being an important number; three threes.

You notice that six, which was three in the states, was awesome as well?
It's the threes doing it for them.

I just hope that this holds true and that 12 is also good, it being four threes.

And hey, don't diss Ultros. That thing was so incompetent as to be hilarious.
An Adventure, Hopefully: Multiverse SI
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Juron Pilo
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Um.... we just said there was no good or evil. Theres only varying degrees of self interest :P. Well ok. Maybe other stuff, but no good or evil!
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Alan Bates
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Juron Pilo,Nov 15 2005
03:25 PM
Um.... we just said there was no good or evil. Theres only varying degrees of self intrest :P.

The cop-out answer of all cop-out answers.

So a person fighting for the freedom of others is no better than the person who's fighting to rule the world in an iron grip then? Or are you just saying that the person fighting "the good fight" is just in it just to save his own skin?

How about this. Suppose buying somebody a flower will gain you the exact same amount of favor as killing a homeless person that nobody else will miss. It's the exact same amount of self intrest in either case for the scenario. is one not better than the other?
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Juron Pilo
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When they are willing to put the lives of innocents on the line? Ok, sure why not. We are blowing up factories here.

Also theres a flaw to your arguement. People arn't static. We commit acts which are... I'll simplify by saying can be good or evil... but we ourselves are not good or evil. Add to that were talking about organizations here and not individuals.
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Newb
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Alan Bates,Nov 15 2005
06:29 PM
How about this. Suppose buying somebody a flower will gain you the exact same amount of favor as killing a homeless person that nobody else will miss. It's the exact same amount of self intrest in either case for the scenario. is one not better than the other?

will the homeless person make funny noises when they die?
An Adventure, Hopefully: Multiverse SI
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MFD
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THIEF!
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... In the watches of the night, mind you, when there's nobody there except Shinra soldiers.
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Alan Bates
Transcendent
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Juron Pilo,Nov 15 2005
03:31 PM
When they are willing to put the lives of innocents on the line? Ok, sure why not. We are blowing up factories here.

Also theres a flaw to your arguement. People arn't static. We commit act which are... I'll simplify by saying can be good or evil... but we ourselves are not good or evil. Add to that were talking about organizations here and not individuals.

So, based on what you've said, if you feel there's no good or evil, no nobel goals, killing monsters is no different than killing people, and there's no difference between killing somebody or buying somebody a nice present, why are you even complaing that they killed the enemy in the first place?

What? Did you expect them to be heores? There's obviously no such thing They were just in it for themselves, right?
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Juron Pilo
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Allright. I'll grant you a point. My definition(or lack thereof) of good and evil was in error and too simplistic. The way I tend to look at morals is that after you've taken care of yourself, you try to help others as much as possible(so pretty much like normal morals, except no noble heroic sacrifices). I suppose that bounds, of helping others rather than keeping it all to yourself, could be consider the boundary of good and evil, at least as far as a single act goes.

Edit: Anyways when I said there was no good and evil, I meant as in you can't call people or groups evil. Creating a bunch of races race based on illogical biology and giving them all the inborn trait of being evil is just, well, WRONG.

Edit2: It was in a seperate paragraph, but I added edit marks to make you happy. :P
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Algasir
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Green hair!
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Food is overrated. :P

EDIT: Oh boo. You edited your post...
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Juron Pilo
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You realize of course, that we've breached the territory of philosophy along time back.

Edit: and.... I have to go.
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