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Games and Stuff; Gaming talk, and so forth...
Topic Started: Oct 18 2004, 05:49 AM (230,543 Views)
mordain
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Codewalker
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ryu planeswalker,Mar 8 2006
05:17 PM
Meh My fave mage class is nerfed to suckyness in XI, and theres no blue mages so I am a Red mage untill I can do subclasses and be a thief.

That's... why Notty was talking about *WoW* mages... :P
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Terra Drake
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>.> I like RPG's that have either a tactical aspect or a controlled-fighting aspect. The former is strongest in games such as Final Fantasy X, where every move can be planned out well in advance. It's also alive in earlier Final Fantasy games like VI, V, IV, back when the characters had their own unique abilities. I like to be able to control several individual characters, not interchangeable robots but individual characters with their own strengths, weaknesses, abilities, etc., and to form strategies using these.

Failing that, if we're looking at more of a quick-action onslaught RPG, I like a system kinda like Kingdom Hearts has, where you can move and dodge and attack all on your own.

Ideally, I think an MMORPG should have the latter. If you could have complete control of your character in combat, as does everyone else fighting alongside you, not only would it be more fun, but player ability could actually mean something as well. A warrior has to fight, an archer has to aim, a spellcaster...I don't know, maybe a minigame or something to cast the spell?...has to cast.

...actually, that's my ideal RPG in general. >.> I say we don't waste that on a MMORPG.
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Kuraiou
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There are huge issues with server latency and tricking the game servers themselves to cheat. It's pretty much physically impossible, unless your game is literally plugged into the game server via gigabit ethernet.

edit: as I said before. FFT Online. I VILL make this game one day. Even if it kills me. I already know a lot of the key features. It MUST be done!
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Vortex
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Unfortunately Terra, you're missing one key aspect; Lag. In that sort of situation, it doesn't come down to player skill or anything like that, it comes down to who has the faster/more reliable machine/connection/hardware/etc. Trust me. I've been there. Its a stupidly large factor.
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mordain
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Codewalker
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Terra Drake,Mar 8 2006
06:23 PM
a spellcaster...I don't know, maybe a minigame or something to cast the spell?

That, right there, makes my head hurt so much...

WoW balances the fact that you basically just stand there and hit things by giving people options that you have to adjust based on the situation. For example, it doesn't work too well when my warrior tries to make a skeleton bleed, but my priest gets to use that rarely-used Shackle Undead spell to help in the case of more than one. A mage freezes enemies in place and blinks away to blast them some more... but be aware of your surroundings or else you might blink into more enemies... a hunter (archer/gunman) can control their pet and be careful to keep their distance...

...of course hunter is a relatively easy class but let's not get into that...

And jumping around can help, if you can avoid the enemy's swings. It's really good in PvP to end up behind your enemy where it's a little hard for them to swing that sword at you. :P

edit: Yeah, lag. That's the key issue... and some classes suffer more from it as it is (priest vs warrior, anyone vs paladin? ;_;)
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Knight
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I don't know. FPS games work fine. Sure, lower latency means better accuracy, but it's not crippling.
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Kuraiou
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FPS games work functionally differently than MMOs.

FPS: you have up to 64 (at most! very rarely) players all connecting to each other, typically via a dedicated server. Even then, there are HUGE lag problems once you hit more than 32 characters. For smaller groups it's simply a one-player-hosts kind of thing. It's client-to-client connections.

MMO: hundreds of thousands of people on at any given time are sending information to a server, which must then verify the data, make sure nothing's going on, update the entire world's worth of information, and then send it back.

In MMOs, lag is a fucking MONSTER.
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Vortex
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..... Knight, that is so untrue. I played a match earlier (A clan ladder match) and the guy with the higher ping was their best player, primarily because we couldn't touch him. He could shoot us before we even saw him on our screens.
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Knight
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Kuraiou,Mar 8 2006
02:30 PM
FPS: you have up to 64 (at most! very rarely) players all connecting to each other, typically via a dedicated server. Even then, there are HUGE lag problems once you hit more than 32 characters.

One word.

Planetside.
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Terra Drake
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Lag's a good point. >.> So the reason my concept wouldn't work is the online aspect. So...yeah, that would be better for a real RPG. It'd be a lot of fun, though.

And Mordy, it's not that hard. I've seen it before, where to cast a spell you have to press certain buttons in the right order, or some such, and the faster you do it, the faster you can get the spell out. It's kinda cool, because then it's like you're actually casting the spell, instead of just telling the character to cast the spell.
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Kuraiou
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If anyone's ever played Arx Fatalis, you cast spells by drawing sequences of runes on the screen. It was really cool. You could also pre-prepare 3 spells to fast cast, which you REALLY needed a lot.
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mordain
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Terra Drake,Mar 8 2006
06:31 PM
And Mordy, it's not that hard. I've seen it before, where to cast a spell you have to press certain buttons in the right order, or some such, and the faster you do it, the faster you can get the spell out. It's kinda cool, because then it's like you're actually casting the spell, instead of just telling the character to cast the spell.

That would get me to never, ever play a spellcaster... so much pain in fingers...

And if you think WoW's battle system is easymode...

Well, yes. It's sorta meant to be.
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Terra Drake
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It's more fun than you give it credit for. >.>
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Notty
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I dunno, Mordy, sounds like Sabin's Blitzes, but with Magic instead.
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Knight
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Vortex,Mar 8 2006
02:31 PM
..... Knight, that is so untrue. I played a match earlier (A clan ladder match) and the guy with the higher ping was their best player, primarily because we couldn't touch him. He could shoot us before we even saw him on our screens.

The good/obsessed players are often the ones that pay for the better equipment/faster connections. My home connection isn't particularly impressive. I can generally get about 400ms ping for BF2. Now personally, I suck at FPS. However, my brother uses the same connection and smokes everyone he plays.
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mordain
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Fun for you, maybe.

I'd rather cast a bunch of cool spells rather than work hard at perfecting one single spell.
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Kuraiou
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WoW's strength in combat comes from group mechanics. On your own, yeah, you don't really do that much. But how you interact with the other members of your group and the mobs themselves is pretty wildly varied, and I've been in some crazy freaking fights that have been really really fun.

How to hold extra mobs, keep hate on certain characters, maximize damage, know what types of attacks will and won't work, keep certain mobs from doing special attacks, etc. etc. Especially in the endgame, there are lots of little tricks to beating mobs, or special ways only(in MC, there's a group of Beasts that can only be taken out if all three are taken out at the same time -- otherwise, one of them rezzes the others that are killed).
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Vortex
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When you consider how long these people play for, its more crippling than you give it credit for too...
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mordain
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Codewalker
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Notty,Mar 8 2006
06:35 PM
I dunno, Mordy, sounds like Sabin's Blitzes, but with Magic instead.

Did I mention that I could barely use Sabin in FFVI?

The thing about it is, is that's not strategy or anything, it's sheer muscle skill. I thought, Terra, you said you wanted more strategy and planning? That's what WoW does with the current system of a bunch of options...
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Notty
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Annoying Little Boy
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Mordy and Kura have it.

Especially in group PvP, I'm bouncing around, mashing keys to cast so wildly, it feels like I'm playing an action RPG.
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