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#658; Because chickens don't have nuggets.
Topic Started: Apr 8 2011, 04:04 AM (1,452 Views)
Red Silvers
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Emperor
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And now Cecil has become emo, the likes of Cloud and Squall!
"Speaking of being terrible at games, Red fumbling with the blocks in Magnet Man's level has to be seen to be believed. If the definition of insanity has to do with expecting different results upon trying the same thing, then he must be one of the most insane people I've ever known." - Brickroad

The Guardian Legend - By Red Silvers (VLP): Our Red Silvers continues to find the weirdest worksafe pictures of the game's protagonist, a plane that transforms into a waifu.

Super Metroid - By Red Silvers (VLP): I think it's safe to say at this point, that Samus ain't leaving her suit once Red Silvers finally gets around the finishing this game.

Fantastic Dizzy - By Red Silvers (VLP): Fresh off his recent run of Super Metroid, Red Silvers tackles yet another, err... classic? (Egg-scuse me for being confused about Red Silvers' next choice.)
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Carmichael Micaalus
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Secretary of Maternal Relations
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I suppose if I had to suffer jokes like that, I'd go the way of a Dark Knight as well.
There used to be an image here telling you to vote, but then Photobucket, the image site made to allow you to do third party hosting, no longer allows third party hosting without throwing a shitload of money at them... and I can barely afford to eat. So no you get some text of me bitching about it, yaaay! Also, go vote.
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deathsbuddy
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Why is Cecil's text like that again? Isn't that how Cagnazzo talked?
a friend to psychopomps and other celestial objects
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Red Silvers
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It's his paralysis.
"Speaking of being terrible at games, Red fumbling with the blocks in Magnet Man's level has to be seen to be believed. If the definition of insanity has to do with expecting different results upon trying the same thing, then he must be one of the most insane people I've ever known." - Brickroad

The Guardian Legend - By Red Silvers (VLP): Our Red Silvers continues to find the weirdest worksafe pictures of the game's protagonist, a plane that transforms into a waifu.

Super Metroid - By Red Silvers (VLP): I think it's safe to say at this point, that Samus ain't leaving her suit once Red Silvers finally gets around the finishing this game.

Fantastic Dizzy - By Red Silvers (VLP): Fresh off his recent run of Super Metroid, Red Silvers tackles yet another, err... classic? (Egg-scuse me for being confused about Red Silvers' next choice.)
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mordain
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I don't think emo is the right word, given that he's actually trying to cheer Spoony up.

Also I'm amazed he can talk at all. Must be difficult.

I love Spoony's expressions in this comic. I'm not sure why.
Live and learn - or die and teach by example.
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Gaius
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Yeah, having a backstory with depressing things in it isn't enough for emo, since he's not, say, going on and on and on about them.
Also, to be fair, I never really thought FF7 Cloud was really that angsty. I emphasize that I only mean Cloud as he was in the original game, and not his appearances thereafter. Though maybe he doesn't seem that emo to me since the frame of reference I'm using is Squall...

... Also, I really, really want to know both if Spoony can open that chest from the battle screen and what's inside it.
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MFD
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Red Silvers,Apr 7 2011
11:04 PM
And now Cecil has become emo, the likes of Cloud and Squall!

Dude started the game as a dark knight brooding about pillaging a peaceful village.
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
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Cador_2004
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Oh hey, that might have actually worked for a moment. Edward's laughter isn't in sorrow text.
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MFD
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Heh. That's true. Also, Kid Cecil looks cute.
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
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Atalas
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given that that chest came from the basement of Baron Castle, there's gotta be an awesome item in there. Be funny though if Edward went for it, thinking it'd hold a weapon that help him overcome the, as he called it, "broken game mechanics" that made it so he can't hit Cecil, and instead found 99 copies of whatever it is that cures paralysis. That'd probably make him go mega Touched, and let loose a wave of Sorrow like Roll did.
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Calemyr
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There's nothing "emo" about Cecil. He expresses doubt about his orders and then regrets for obeying them, but he never plays the role of a victim, and as soon as I finds a way to break free of the dark sword, he leaps at it and puts every effort into redeeming himself and then some. No moping, no self pity, just dedication and raw force of will.

As for this here, he's simply saying his collection of jokes was one thing he never had the reason or opportunity to improve. Paladins are supposed to be stately, dark knights are supposed to be menacing, and as an orphan, the jokes he was told were not all that funny (to him, at least). He's simply stating the facts, not dwelling on them.
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Pata Hikari
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If you laughed like Edward did you're a bad person.

I'm a bad person
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ShadowWarriorLuke
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Pretty sure that kid is now who we know as The Loneliest Boy Ever.

I don't know how he stayed a boy for so long but whatever.
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Zap Rowsdower
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No, I think he's just one of the Evil Robot Clones Sent by Cid of the Loneliest Boy Ever. A product of the lazy gods

Aka a reused sprite.
"Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Otto von Bismarck
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MFD
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Agree to disagree, Calemyr. Cecil spent quite some time brooding over his sins.

Just because it was done well doesn't mean he's not filled with angst.

Further, you can justify Cloud's angst, too, but that doesn't make it less of a fact.
Oceans rise, empires fall

I need to know
If the world says it's time to go
Tell me will you freak out?
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Alan Bates
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I think people tos around the word angst like it's a bad thing for a character to have. Cloud didn't know who he really was and pretty much failed at everything he set out to do in life.
Cecil was put in charge of a mission to go steal from and kill innocent people.

I'd be more worried about them if they weren't the slightest bit upset about what they did.
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Calemyr
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I didn't mean to suggest he never felt angst. You'd have to be an automaton not to feel any angst in your life. As the Sten once put it "You either have an enviable memory or a pitiable life to know nothing of regret".

Cecil had *plenty* to angst over. He crushed a community of innocent mages just because he was following orders. He all but committed genocide against an entire race without meaning to. The king, a man he loved like a father and sacrificed everything for (by becoming a Dark Knight), stripped him of his post for questioning the first and then tricked him into the second. Did he angst over all this? Hell, yes. Was he out of line in doing so? Hell, no. Angst isn't what I was objecting to, it was the "emo" label.

Cecil never played the role of the victim. Even as he angsts over something, he's working out a way to resolve it, be it by bringing his concerns to the king in private conference or protecting the lone survivor of his unintentional genocide. He doesn't wallow in angst, he uses it to propel him forward. That is not "emo", that is "badass".

Take Cloud as the other side of the coin. Yeah, he's got reasons to angst - even more so than Mr. Harvey, here. The difference is that, instead of deriving motivation from his angst the way Cecil does, he allows it to sap what motivation he started with, bit by bit, until he snaps in some way and either goes crazy, runs away, or shuts down.

In short, I think it's acceptable (and proper) to angst over certain things, but not to wallow in it until it destroys you. Maybe my definition is wrong, that's 'emo' in a nutshell to my mangled mind.
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archaeo
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We've seen people lose their Touched text when laughing before, including Lisa, who seems way more far gone than Spoony here. I don't think that's all it would take for Cecil to get out of this fix.

As for angst in Square games, it's all a marketing decision. FF VII sold beyond anyone's wildest dreams in the US, so we get Squall and Co., a set of characters with all kinds of secrets they don't even know they're keeping. But it's also a very basic character-writing technique, since it sets up an easy conflict and makes for some dramatic dialogue. Cecil, Terra, Locke, the Figaro brothers, FF V's whole cast -- if you give a character something to feel bad about, it can only help.
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Zap Rowsdower
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As Calemyr said, it doesn't matter how much crap they're getting piled on top of 'em. What matters is how they react to that crap. A Square comparison I'm fond of is Cloud vs. Lightning, since she was explicitly designed based off of him, making the comaparison inevitable at some point. Both end up having to fight former allies due to matters outside their own control using powers forced on them by said enemies, and end up allying with quirky characters they don't like very much. Cloud reacts to social dilemmas by clamming up and to his own inner demons by slowly letting his psychological problems overwhelm him, losing control of himself entirely at times and beating himself up over his ills and failures. Lightning, by contrast, reacts to social problems by punching the person responsible in the face, and to her inner demons by killing as many of the SOBs responsible as possible for vengeance and catharsis, with character development affecting who and why she fights and keeps going rather than her ability to fight and keep going in the first place; when she gets frustrated, she beats up who she thinks is responsible for her ills and failures.

To paraphrase what Calemyr said, its all about using your inner demons to drive you onward, rather than letting them devour you. Most of the older FF characters, tormented though they were, were the former, particularly IV and V, although as in many things VI was somewhat similar to VII in that regard, although better written in my biased opinion.
"Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Otto von Bismarck
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Atalas
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Zap Rowsdower,Apr 9 2011
12:40 AM
To paraphrase what Calemyr said, its all about using your inner demons to drive you onward, rather than letting them devour you. Most of the older FF characters, tormented though they were, were the former, particularly IV and V, although as in many things VI was somewhat similar to VII in that regard, although better written in my biased opinion.

Indeed, and in my opinion FFVI was the best RPG ever made. Period. I can't give any opinion on the games since FFX-2, as I have not played them. Chrono Trigger is the only one that compares.

I think the Touched lose their special text when laughing because in that moment, they are not filled with Sorrow, but its still there in their mind and immediately returns upon the laughter dying. Though Crazy Psycho Girl did lose the text completely. Dunno if that was a sign of her delving into Sorrow less, or if she has control over her text due to being aware of it. Dunno if anyone remembers it, but Alex messed around with his text in the treasure chest room... and is it my imagination or did Gato, Palom, and Porom understand what he was doing?
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