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| #658; Because chickens don't have nuggets. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 8 2011, 04:04 AM (1,453 Views) | |
| Starcat5 | Apr 9 2011, 01:53 PM Post #21 |
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Citizen
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Am I STILL a bad person if I'm laughing at Spoony's reaction to the joke, rather than the joke itself? |
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"In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! We are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory." ~Aragorn, The Lord of the Rings, 5th Appendix | |
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| gopus | Apr 9 2011, 05:15 PM Post #22 |
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Regular
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Unrelated note... if Lucca wanted to visit Robo so bad, why didn't she just visit him in the Medieval period when she got Frog? When Robo went into the time portal to the future after the defeat of Lavos, perhaps he was changed to reflect the future, and so Lucca's concerns are justified. But why doesn't she just visit him in the Middle Ages? |
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| Algasir | Apr 9 2011, 05:29 PM Post #23 |
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Green hair!
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At the end of Chrono Trigger, they dismantled the Epoch (or at least they were supposed to after getting Crono's Mom and the cats back). That said, I can't remember if they actually did that in this comic and rebuilt it, or if they never dismantled it in the first place. If the former, then it makes more sense that she didn't do it. |
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| Alan Bates | Apr 9 2011, 08:06 PM Post #24 |
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Transcendent
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Leaving Robo in the middle ages was optional, if I recall. Maybe Alex never did that. |
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| Red Silvers | Apr 9 2011, 08:51 PM Post #25 |
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Emperor
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I thought that was the only way to get Lucca's scene with the red gate... |
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"Speaking of being terrible at games, Red fumbling with the blocks in Magnet Man's level has to be seen to be believed. If the definition of insanity has to do with expecting different results upon trying the same thing, then he must be one of the most insane people I've ever known." - Brickroad The Guardian Legend - By Red Silvers (VLP): Our Red Silvers continues to find the weirdest worksafe pictures of the game's protagonist, a plane that transforms into a waifu. Super Metroid - By Red Silvers (VLP): I think it's safe to say at this point, that Samus ain't leaving her suit once Red Silvers finally gets around the finishing this game. Fantastic Dizzy - By Red Silvers (VLP): Fresh off his recent run of Super Metroid, Red Silvers tackles yet another, err... classic? (Egg-scuse me for being confused about Red Silvers' next choice.) | |
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| Algasir | Apr 9 2011, 08:56 PM Post #26 |
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Green hair!
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It was. |
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| Calemyr | Apr 9 2011, 09:19 PM Post #27 |
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Immigrant
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One could reason that he's no longer there, which is Lucca's proof that he was removed in the future. As the beginning of CT (Marle mistaken for Leene) shows, eliminating a time traveller before they travel removes them from the timestream. Lucca still has her memories, because a time traveller's memories aren't effected by changes in the timestream (they remembered Marle after she vanished, after all), but Robo was never actually there to do the planting. Technically, this would be true. The Robo that currently exists never did go back in time, since his past was altered before he left the timestream. He *may* remember what happened, but his actions were expunged from history and the memories of all who didn't leave the timestream. In short, Lucca didn't find him in the past, and takes that as proof he no longer exists. This is likely wrong, but people making bad decisions based on imperfect knowledge and logic has been a hallmark of this comic. |
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| Cran | Apr 9 2011, 09:23 PM Post #28 |
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Roxas!
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The Grandfather Paradox (which states a time traveler ceases to exist if something would prevent their traveling/birth/etc.) is probably Chrono Trigger's most famous plot hole. The game seems to support a mite of "Time Traveler's Immunity", as the Compendium calls it, in which anyone who travels through time is immune to the effects of time changing. Marle's disappearance is offset by humanity still existing when Ayla travels to the future, etc. |
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"When the sun goes down, the stars come out like the ghosts of yesterday, So drink'em down, 'cause some things never change. Baby sing, get loud. We ain't gonna fuck around. When the sun goes down, let me hear you say...this is my town." ~Hollywood Undead, My Town It's been fun guys. Hasta. | |
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| Zap Rowsdower | Apr 9 2011, 09:35 PM Post #29 |
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The artist formerly known as Randomlurker
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I'm personally of the opinion that Ayla being her ancestor was mostly symbolic, given that 65 million years passed. Ayla is an ancestor of every single human on the planet, and probably half the Mystics, even if she only had 2 kids. Her degree of relatedness r value to Marle is approximately the same as the probability of spontaneously quantum tunneling through your chair when you try to sit down. Taking her out of the gene pool preemptively would do nothing whatsoever measurable to phenotype, and not much more to genotype. And not being formal royalty, either, there isn't the end-of-whole-family situation that can happen in succession crisises; its entirely possible that a sister or cousin of Ayla's took her place in the ancestral tree, whereas a succession crisis in a royal family can lead to civil war and such that knocks the whole family out. Plus Kino has a good chance of mating with someone else after she "dies" from the perspective of history/bloodlines by leaving, whereas King Guardia was more restricted emotionally, socially, and by rules of who royalty can marry. And then there's the fact that Ayla planned on returning, whereas Lenne was about to be killed as a result of timeline changes- note that Marle only started vanishing after staying behind long enough to persuade them not to look for Lenne and lasted a while after, not immediately upon arrival and being found; Ayla never really ran into any comprable die-here-and-change-history situations other than Game Over situations. Maybe I'm overthinking this. |
| "Be polite; write diplomatically; even in a declaration of war one observes the rules of politeness." - Otto von Bismarck | |
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| Algasir | Apr 9 2011, 09:40 PM Post #30 |
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Green hair!
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I always assumed it WAS Kino who was Marle's ancestor. Of course, I was only going by the scene in the ending with the previous King Guardia, Doan, and Kino being there. |
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| Calemyr | Apr 9 2011, 09:40 PM Post #31 |
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Immigrant
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That's not quite right, because Ayla never died - she was never severed from causality. Unless she dies, she is destined to return and have lots of fun with Kino. If she had died, things might have changed drastically, like they did if you win before rescuing Kino. But as Zap notes, Ayla's far too removed an ancestor to have too much of a genetic impact on gaming's warmest ice princess. Basically, the "time traveler's immunity" would only apply to memory, and to some degree events that are altered after the traveler left the time stream for the first time. Events that alter time before that point effect them, however, such as Marle's disappearance and sudden manifestation of frog-like traits, the human race being replaced by reptites, and the universal acceptance of the Black Omen. The point is that all that remains of the Robo Lucca traveed with is memory. One exists, but the party never ventured to that timeline and he was never taken into the past. |
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| Cran | Apr 9 2011, 09:45 PM Post #32 |
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Roxas!
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I never thought Ayla was her actual ancestor in any meaningful direct manner except being a leader. I think it can be surmised that she helped her people survive to make it to antiquity. But that's a bit subjective and only one example of the Grandfather Paradox plothole. http://chronocompendium.com/Term/Time_Trav...s_Immunity.html I'd have a tl;dr summary, but I am le tired. |
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"When the sun goes down, the stars come out like the ghosts of yesterday, So drink'em down, 'cause some things never change. Baby sing, get loud. We ain't gonna fuck around. When the sun goes down, let me hear you say...this is my town." ~Hollywood Undead, My Town It's been fun guys. Hasta. | |
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| Spriteless Girl | Apr 9 2011, 10:14 PM Post #33 |
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Sage
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That's okay. It's fun! On a meta level, Alex probably overthinks it too. There is lots of thinking to be overdone here. I wonder what Lucca saw change that she knew what happened when went she back in time to tell Crono what happened. Does she have Time Traveller's immunity as an inventor of the time machine? If so than what about Taban who helped? I figured it was all guided by Earth's dying regrets, like Robo said. The heroes were guided by her desire for a better past. Saves a lot of plot holes. |
Hey, the comic seems to be updating kind of regularly. Maybe we should vote to spread the word.
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| Cran | Apr 9 2011, 10:58 PM Post #34 |
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Roxas!
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The way TTI works is that anyone who specifically travels through time will always appear at the outgoing end of the gate at the specified time, no matter how the timeline is otherwise changed around it. So, Lucca, as of this comic, would theoretically be the exact same at the moment she and Crono arrived in the Middle Ages to pick up Glenn (assuming she went straight to FFIV from there), but Taban has never actually gone through time, so he'll change with the streams. Assuming TTI is a thing in CSNES, anyway. |
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"When the sun goes down, the stars come out like the ghosts of yesterday, So drink'em down, 'cause some things never change. Baby sing, get loud. We ain't gonna fuck around. When the sun goes down, let me hear you say...this is my town." ~Hollywood Undead, My Town It's been fun guys. Hasta. | |
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| gopus | Apr 10 2011, 01:30 AM Post #35 |
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Regular
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He had to have helped plant the forest or the forest would not be there, and Lucca's mother would not be able to walk; yet the comic maintains that Lucca's mother is able to walk. TTI could explain how Robo could be removed from the timeline while the causes of his actions remain; HOWEVER, TTI cannot explain why Robo does not appear in the Middle Ages NOW, because we already know that you had to travel WITHOUT Robo to the modern period in order to acquire him again IN THE GAME. If TTI would remove him from the time stream after the fight with Lavos, then it should have removed him from the timestream before you attempt to reacquire him. There is literally no theory on time that would necessitate that Robo would not still be in the Middle Ages. He should still be there. I WANT ANSWERS IN THE COMIC. I MOVE TO STRIKE!!! :-p |
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| Cran | Apr 10 2011, 02:25 AM Post #36 |
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Roxas!
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Assuming TTI, Robo would still exist in 2300AD for having come out the other end of the time gate he entered in CT's epilogue. Or, at the very least, the End of Time. Assuming Grandfather Paradox, Robo may not exist, but then, assuming Grandfather Paradox, Lavos doesn't get destroyed due to a deposit of information. Even though it's Jossed by Videoland, itself, it's worth noting that Mother Brain and Prometheus DO exist in the new future, as stated by Chrono Cross. |
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"When the sun goes down, the stars come out like the ghosts of yesterday, So drink'em down, 'cause some things never change. Baby sing, get loud. We ain't gonna fuck around. When the sun goes down, let me hear you say...this is my town." ~Hollywood Undead, My Town It's been fun guys. Hasta. | |
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| Zero Spectrem | Apr 10 2011, 03:03 AM Post #37 |
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Regular
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Brain. Hurts. Must go play copy of Chrono Trigger now. |
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| gopus | Apr 10 2011, 03:23 AM Post #38 |
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Regular
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Sovereign says Chrono Cross won't happen. :-) |
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| Cran | Apr 10 2011, 03:26 AM Post #39 |
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Roxas!
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As I said, Jossed by Videoland. Still a point for consideration. |
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"When the sun goes down, the stars come out like the ghosts of yesterday, So drink'em down, 'cause some things never change. Baby sing, get loud. We ain't gonna fuck around. When the sun goes down, let me hear you say...this is my town." ~Hollywood Undead, My Town It's been fun guys. Hasta. | |
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| JayDee | Apr 10 2011, 06:09 AM Post #40 |
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Gamemaster
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How would that even work? |
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2:12 PM Jul 11