Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Full Intensity Wrestling. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
So, Sid tells me "Go nuts."
Topic Started: Jan 5 2016, 03:57 PM (693 Views)
Jimmy Jimbo
Member Avatar
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[ *  *  *  * ]
http://z4.invisionfree.com/FIWII/index.php?showtopic=21472

Now, this isn't necessarily a response to that. I've been sitting on the first half of this roleplay for awhile now. I wanted to use it during the Psycho Dragon feud, but I just wound up not.

Now, I gotta sk kind of an odd question - not necessarily for me, but for the old school-wrestling 101-Jim Cornette part of my brain... Do you guys like this stuff? :P Like, do you want to read about Lucas' struggles with his sexual identity? Or Silas' struggles with mental illness, depression and suicide? Or the skeletons that are in Becky Grimm's closet (cause she might read like the normal one in the bunch, but she's got her share as well)?

Because there's the Jim Cornette slice of my brain that just keeps asking "How does this tie in to wrestling?" and saying "Keep it simple, stupid!"

Cause I'm of two minds on this - I want fleshed out, well rounded characters. but on the other hand... Honestly, I'm scared to death I'm going to wind up doing with Lucas & Silas what I did with Some Kind of Monster in NGIW. When Monster was doing quite well as this destructive force, but I wound up turning him babyface by giving him a girlfriend and teaming him with a very white-meat Nightmare and splitting him off from his heel manager all in the name of character development. And what I wound up doing was irreversible damage (in my mind) to the character, to the point where he just was never taken seriously again, which is why I've only ever used him as pretty much a comedy character ever since.

I think that's the issue I'm having. I don't want to sacrifice mystique in favor of character development.

Your thoughts, if any.
[align=center]Posted Image[/align]
[size0]Thanks, Lita! :)

<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cc3300; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE ROUGAROU</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Rougarou" Silas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'6"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>296 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>The Bayou</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Led Zeppelin - 'When The Levee Breaks'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Methodical Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Sword of Damocles </option>
<option> - Chokeslam </option>
<option> - Bayou Leg Sweep </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Swamp Drop Brainbuster</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 1x Fighting Spirit Champion</option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Roleplay of the Year (Family Reunion)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Segment of the Year (The Rougarou Cometh)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Mr. GEIST/Deacon DEATH)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Newcomer of the Year</option>
<option> - 2014 & 2015 FIW Manager of the Year (Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Now do you believe in The Rougarou? </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cadetblue; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">#SWAGOLITION</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Condemned" Lucas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'4½"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>235 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Kandiyohi, Minnesota</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Black Sabbath - 'Hole in the Sky'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Athletic - Strong Style - Brawler</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Exploder Suplex </option>
<option> - Powerbomb </option>
<option> - German Suplex </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - The Manhattan Project</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - n/a </option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW ReVolt Match of the Year (vs. Nemesis, 6/6/15)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Nemesis)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Babyface of the Year</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ The Rougarou)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Just Give The Lunatic A Chance... </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: 14b8ff; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE MAN IN BLACK</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>Jim O'Brien </option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'7"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>290 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Grant's Lick, Kentucky</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Motörhead - 'Line in the Sand'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Strong Style Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Belly-to-Belly Suplex</option>
<option> - Saito Suplex </option>
<option> - Jackknife Powerbomb </option>
<option> - Hells Bells-plex</option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Hells Bells</option>
<option> - F-Bomb</option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 2x Fighting Spirit Champion </option>
<option> - 1x co-holder of the FIW Tag Team Championships of the World (w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 1x Ultimate Endurance Champion</option>
<option> - 1x Spirit Of Honour Champion</option>
<option> - 3x Dual Crown Champion</option>
<option> Other Cool Stuff: </option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Hall of Fame inductee</option>
<option> - 2004 TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2004 Feud Of The Year (w/ Silent Rage)</option>
<option> - 2004 Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Genocide)
<option> - 2005 1st Runner-Up, TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2005 Co-Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Anarchy In The UK)</option>
<option> - 2008 & 2012 Lady Luck Tournament Champion </option>
<option> - 2008 Grand Prix Tournament Champion</option>
<option> - 2008 Match of the Year participant (vs. Liam Mortell vs. Kiyoshi Nakahata @ FIW Summer of Sin) </option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW Feud of the Year participant (vs. Ash Koopa)</option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW (Face/Heel/Tweener) Turn of the Year</option>
<option> - 2009 ReVolt Match Of The Year participant (vs. Ethan Adams @ ReVolt Against The Champions X)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Tag Team Of The Year (The O'Brien Clan, w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Duo Of The Year (w/ Kendra O'Brien)</option>
<option> - April 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - April 2012 Storyline of the Month ("Dirty Deeds...")</option>
<option> - May 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - May 2012 Match of the Month participant (vs. Damien Holburn @ FIW Deadlock)</option>
<option> - July 2012 Co-Match of the Month participant (vs. Mad Dawg @ FIW ReVolt (07/01/12)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> So yeah, Jim was awesome. :-D </option>
</select></center>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lita Maivia
Member Avatar
Legend
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I still regret that we never got that SKOK/Dante feud that I pitched to kick off very violently and it was ready go but NGIW closed. :(

Umm... On topic, I'll read that RP soon and answer the questions you actually asked.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sidewinder
Go Back to Sleep
[ *  *  * ]
I liked it.

Posted Image

I feel like striking a balance is always important. More personal, character based stuff is fun and can be really insightful to read. But it works best in my opinion when it's going hand in hand with match related business. This is an e-fed in the end afterall and it's poor form to not really properly acknowledge your opponents or try to give them something to work with.

Not saying you necessarily need to shoe horn it into a more character driven RP either. Sometimes the best weeks people have had here is that one, two punch of a match related RP, then a character driven one or vice versa.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dai
Member Avatar
Captain SPARKLE~!!!
Creative Team
My gut feeling is that Lucas & Ana could benefit from that sort of thing a whole lot more than Silas could. I will hopefully elaborate when my fingers aren't so cold.

EDIT: Basically, right now, Silas, the Rougarou is someone who feeds of his aura and his mystique, and I think delving into his background too much might make him a little too, um, ordinary? I mean, if you were intending to run him as a regular character, then go for it; but as far as I know, right now, you're not.

Whereas, Lucas & Ana are characters who are around a lot more week-in and week-out, so delving in to who they are as people, something something, they don't throw round fucking lightning bolts, ya know? (I put this in as a placeholder sentence originally, but I can't think of a better way to put it.)

Of course, this is all dependent on doing it well, and tying it into who they are as wrestlers, 'cause as the guy said, it's an efed.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minister Wighty
Member Avatar
Opossum Queen of FIW
Admin
Lita Maivia,Jan 5 2016
11:11 AM
I still regret that we never got that SKOK/Dante feud that I pitched to kick off very violently and it was ready go but NGIW closed. :(

Why y'all gotta bring up my shortcomings?

Anyhow. There are two concepts you need to manage in e-fedding; writing what you want to write and writing something that will get you the win. So long as you can take a look at a piece of work that might be an over-indulgent character piece, or kind of out-of-character, or even just a weak RP with a funny concept that you wanted to get up, and reconcile the fact that posting this RP might cause you to lose, you're in good shape.

There were way too many commas in that sentence, it was grammatically horrible, but I don't want to rewrite it.

If you're dedicated to the win, focus, do your best, and avoid something you think others might find lame or boring. It's as simple as that, but it's basically the reason a lot of people get upset about losses in this game; they wanna write what they wanna write and they want other people to enjoy it as much as they do so it gets them a victory, be that a thinkpiece about political unrest in the middle east, an incredibly deep and intertwined love triangle, or a series of fart jokes of increasing intensity. That's just not realistic. You can post whatever you want if you think it's outside the walls of getting you a victory, so long as you're OK with not getting that victory.

THAT BEING SAID... is this character-destroying? No. It's character development. It's a teensy bit more cinematic than your usual fare, but it provides us insight into a character's personality, desires, regrets, and quirks. It pertains to their greater wrestling career and recent events. It naturally discusses the forthcoming match, even, so... I mean, this is all fine.

I think the difference between exploring this kind of stuff and hooking SKOM up with a girlfriend and Nightmare is that there's no real shift to it. Revealing these things about Lucas and Becky don't change who they are as people; it's PART of who they are as people. We're just only now coming to find out about it. It's not new; just new to us.

The Monster stuff also suffered from kind of what Dai was talking about; impacting the core gimmick of the character for the sake of the development and story. Like, if I somehow got involved in a romance angle with Robot Jones, it would be mostly chaste and referred to as events off-screen. He doesn't take off the mask and thus doesn't have a "face" for smooches or whatever. I mean, I guess I could hook up some LEDs in there, or something, for expressions but... uh... anyhow, it's not worth breaking/shifting the gimmick to humanize a character that's supposed to be larger-than-life. Throwing lightning, as Dai put it. The character development that comes in there are things like 'coping with a big loss', 'friction with his partner', typical wrestling stuff. These guys are superheroes! They're mythical! Seeing them being TOO human breaks some of that, possibly irreparably.

On the other hand, Lucas is just a dude. A dude who is good at wrestle, who looks at this as a fucking business and we KNOW this. We can see him struggle emotionally, psychologically, socially... and it's compelling because it helps him seem even more human and relatable.

SKOM was also hurt by the fact that... promo-wise, he was just the big, meat-beast that wrestled for Reverend Crawford's words. You take away the Rev's words and he becomes a meat-beast wrestling for... what? What his girlfriend is saying? The things he's gurgling out? Nightmare before Nightmare was good? It's too different. This flows into one last point I wanna make... if your character development results in a big enough solution... it might end with 'time to hang up the boots' before you'd expect it, and you should probably respect that. Horus "The Owl" Osbourne, the original Tier, and Giggles are three of the characters I've had the most fun playing over the years, but there came a point where Horus and Giggles were perfectly happy where they were in life; they didn't want for titles, didn't have a need to cause drama, and basically had nothing to say. I didn't want to start shit for them by removing what was making them content, so I let them (eventually) fade off into the background. They're still characters that exist and do stuff in my vast e-wrestling canon, but I don't actively roleplay them anymore.

Contrast to Tier who, as my first major character, I made enough mistakes with that I can't recover from. The character has come back for a big event match now and then, and may do so again in the future if I decide it's a cool idea, but otherwise he's retired because he's too full of bad decisions and plot holes to support himself. He still exists in the e-wrestling canon, too, but instead of getting the happy ending he's off at a bar somewhere, rolling his eyes at himself, talking to Bruce Crawford and going "shit, remember when we thought this was a good idea? We were dumb."

Get comfortable with the fact that sometimes a big change might break a character, or at the very least give them their ending. Get comfortable with losing (I know you are), and get comfortable with the fact that not everyone may like it, and you can write whatever the fuck you want so long as it doesn't go damaging the overall narrative of the fed.

For what it's worth I really dug what you wrote this week. But I can't recall a time in recent memory where that wasn't the case.
[align=center]Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That Darn Seph
Member Avatar
The High Elevation Sensation!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
If it makes you happy and you enjoy writing it, then why not? Do you boo boo.
[align=center]

http://ewcprez.proboards.com
Posted Image
Posted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dai
Member Avatar
Captain SPARKLE~!!!
Creative Team
Minister Wighty,Jan 5 2016
07:20 PM
Stuff that expands on what Dai said/meant and makes it make sense.

<3
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That Darn Seph
Member Avatar
The High Elevation Sensation!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
And I dunno, I think Greater Maverick sold Monster so well he was fixed.



Then came a puppet >.> Not saying it was a bad thing, I'm just saying I'm disappointed Monster is gone T_T
[align=center]

http://ewcprez.proboards.com
Posted Image
Posted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sidewinder
Go Back to Sleep
[ *  *  * ]
I loved Monster for the brief time I was around for him. Puppet and all.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minister Wighty
Member Avatar
Opossum Queen of FIW
Admin
He's an NGIW Legend for a reason.
[align=center]Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
That Darn Seph
Member Avatar
The High Elevation Sensation!
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
This
[align=center]

http://ewcprez.proboards.com
Posted Image
Posted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jimmy Jimbo
Member Avatar
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[ *  *  *  * ]
That Darn Seph,Jan 6 2016
12:52 AM
And I dunno, I think Greater Maverick sold Monster so well he was fixed.



Then came a puppet >.> Not saying it was a bad thing, I'm just saying I'm disappointed Monster is gone T_T

He was rehabbed into an endearing and fun character. But he'll never be the (and maybe I'm looking through horrorcore tinted glasses) the meat-beast he was in his first few months of NGIW and any attempt to make him that again... ehhhhh. It's like when Big Show or Kane try to get heated up into being ERMEHGERD!!! MERNSTERS!!! when you just saw them job in 4 minutes the previous week to Ryback or Rusev and know they're just 3-4 weeks away from doing it again.

I will say... like, last summer, my dream was to put Monster with the Coulter Club, because I just thought the visuals of Kim Coulter arguing with a Kermit the Frog puppet named Saul E. Mander or Monster eating Nathaniel Alexander's tie like a Slim Jim was just too funny to pass up (I have my doubts that Lita or Nate would've thought it would've been all that funny, though :P ). Things came up and I had to put that idea on the backburner, though. Maybe if we ever get that developmental micro-fed figured out...

Back on the character development front, and to really get into a lot of the issues I have with the fed (ERRNERS!).

So, my main critique in the GP handler feedback was to get out of the box a little more. But the problem I have is, well it's kinda 2 things - the narrative (for lack of a better term) is too restrictive or (to sound cool like Sid & Wight) is very nebulous (that means lots of gray area - I looked it up :P ). That sounds very contradictive but it winds up being both to me.

Like, on one hand, we pretty much all write real time promos or vignettes. But whenever anybody goes outside of that... well, it's not received well. Like when Bran or Maddox Blade wrote their dream sequences. And we all know how those turned out. That's one of the issues I have - the milisecond I click Post New Topic or Add Reply, what I just wrote is instantly in the consciousness of every character in the fed. Which is how it's supposed to go, I get that. And when Maddox Blade did it, I perfectly got Lita's side to that whole ordeal - it isn't fair for someone to post a roleplay and the opponent (or anybody, really) not be able to reply to it. But on the other hand, it's restrictive to what I can do, not just as a roleplayer, but as a creative writer.

Like (and before you think about it, do not play a drinking game for how many times I say "like" or you'll die of alcohol poisoning), a few days ago I got really excited about a series of flashbacks in Silas' life that I really wanted to write because they would provide some very important context for the reasons he acts the way that he will in his upcoming feud (I'm not so sure about it now, though). But, to touch base on it again, things like that just don't fit the narrative of the fed. I've been trying to negotiate with myself how I could still do it and not mess up... anything but it's been a struggle. To the point where I'm thinking "Well, I'll post these flashbacks when Silas has the week off and nobody has to reply to it" or "I'll tell Sid ahead of time 'I don't want these to necessarily count' so even if all I post if a flashback, I'll still lose because I didn't post a roleplay relating to the match (which I would really try not to do)."

And this goes into another issue I have - when's the cameraman in the room and when is he not? Is this a reality show or a scripted drama? What are we doing here? Is FIW a wrestling promotion or a show about a wrestling promotion? What lens should I look at FIW through? I know people don't want absolutes but I NEED them so I know what parameters I can work in and what I can't. I need something definitive. Because, yeah, there are times I'll just say "fuck it" and write a roleplay like Never Leave where Lucas is opening up about crossdressing as a child because I can come back and say "Well Lucas doesn't care if there's a camera in the room, because everything just gets out in the open anyway." But then I'll have a roleplay like Family Reunion where half the roleplay itself is Anna Bowie and the cameraman trying to track Silas down and convince him that it's okay for him to be filmed visiting his brother's grave (which, fuck, would YOU let anybody film you at such a personal and vulnerable time?). Because if there's a cameraman in the room with you, it's human nature, there are just things you're not going to say or do. And I'm not going to write characters who lack that level of self awareness because, simply, that shit hurts my fucking brain. I can't think of anything more else insulting to me, as a viewer/reader/consumer of media, when you have a situation like 2 heels plotting to beat up a babyface while they're BEING FILMED and expecting the babyface NOT to know about it. I just can't do things like that.

[/rant]

I'm not exactly done, but I have to leave for work. :P
[align=center]Posted Image[/align]
[size0]Thanks, Lita! :)

<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cc3300; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE ROUGAROU</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Rougarou" Silas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'6"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>296 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>The Bayou</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Led Zeppelin - 'When The Levee Breaks'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Methodical Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Sword of Damocles </option>
<option> - Chokeslam </option>
<option> - Bayou Leg Sweep </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Swamp Drop Brainbuster</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 1x Fighting Spirit Champion</option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Roleplay of the Year (Family Reunion)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Segment of the Year (The Rougarou Cometh)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Mr. GEIST/Deacon DEATH)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Newcomer of the Year</option>
<option> - 2014 & 2015 FIW Manager of the Year (Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Now do you believe in The Rougarou? </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cadetblue; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">#SWAGOLITION</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Condemned" Lucas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'4½"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>235 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Kandiyohi, Minnesota</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Black Sabbath - 'Hole in the Sky'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Athletic - Strong Style - Brawler</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Exploder Suplex </option>
<option> - Powerbomb </option>
<option> - German Suplex </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - The Manhattan Project</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - n/a </option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW ReVolt Match of the Year (vs. Nemesis, 6/6/15)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Nemesis)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Babyface of the Year</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ The Rougarou)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Just Give The Lunatic A Chance... </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: 14b8ff; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE MAN IN BLACK</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>Jim O'Brien </option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'7"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>290 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Grant's Lick, Kentucky</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Motörhead - 'Line in the Sand'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Strong Style Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Belly-to-Belly Suplex</option>
<option> - Saito Suplex </option>
<option> - Jackknife Powerbomb </option>
<option> - Hells Bells-plex</option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Hells Bells</option>
<option> - F-Bomb</option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 2x Fighting Spirit Champion </option>
<option> - 1x co-holder of the FIW Tag Team Championships of the World (w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 1x Ultimate Endurance Champion</option>
<option> - 1x Spirit Of Honour Champion</option>
<option> - 3x Dual Crown Champion</option>
<option> Other Cool Stuff: </option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Hall of Fame inductee</option>
<option> - 2004 TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2004 Feud Of The Year (w/ Silent Rage)</option>
<option> - 2004 Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Genocide)
<option> - 2005 1st Runner-Up, TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2005 Co-Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Anarchy In The UK)</option>
<option> - 2008 & 2012 Lady Luck Tournament Champion </option>
<option> - 2008 Grand Prix Tournament Champion</option>
<option> - 2008 Match of the Year participant (vs. Liam Mortell vs. Kiyoshi Nakahata @ FIW Summer of Sin) </option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW Feud of the Year participant (vs. Ash Koopa)</option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW (Face/Heel/Tweener) Turn of the Year</option>
<option> - 2009 ReVolt Match Of The Year participant (vs. Ethan Adams @ ReVolt Against The Champions X)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Tag Team Of The Year (The O'Brien Clan, w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Duo Of The Year (w/ Kendra O'Brien)</option>
<option> - April 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - April 2012 Storyline of the Month ("Dirty Deeds...")</option>
<option> - May 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - May 2012 Match of the Month participant (vs. Damien Holburn @ FIW Deadlock)</option>
<option> - July 2012 Co-Match of the Month participant (vs. Mad Dawg @ FIW ReVolt (07/01/12)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> So yeah, Jim was awesome. :-D </option>
</select></center>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sidewinder
Go Back to Sleep
[ *  *  * ]
I think I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it here too.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as I'm the fedhead, I view FIW like I've tended to view e-feds. It's not a wrestling show, it's a show about wrestling. Which is to say it's like Carnivale, except instead of being focused on a carnival it's focused on a wrestling promotion & it's people. Admittedly a world where wrestling is "real" too.

Because I feel like it grants writers the creative freedom to play with concepts & ideas, with their characters. And, I agree with you, I think a big part of it is that people need to be able to respect one another & respect their works. I completely got Lita's side of the issue that arose with Maddox, however ultimately that was a drop in the bucket of that overall issue that came about.

I feel like we as a community need to be able to allow each other to do pieces like that, if we so choose, without necessarily immediately jumping on it. With the context that yes, we the audience are able to see it, but it doesn't necessarily mean our characters can. Like how in TMNT, Leo might have a dream about a past encounter, doesn't necessarily mean his brothers all know of that dream too.

An easy way to do that is to look at something someone posted and ask "Would it be game breaking or meta if my character was aware of this?" If the answer is yes, like if it's an RP about a dream, then don't have your character address it, it isn't meant for that.

And, naturally with that comes that these pieces may not necessarily be judged the same one we traditionally would judge a promo style RP vs. a promo style RP. With some things people may do in the name of developing their character, it might not count at all. It would be a case of the handler choosing to do that to enrich their character and enrich the viewing experience of them. And, they'd have to be okay with that.

I. myself, have handled my characters like that since coming to FIW. I do some stuff that is questionable whether the other members of the roster would even be aware of it. But at the same time I do it without expecting it to be what paves my way to victory.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lita Maivia
Member Avatar
Legend
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
The problem with the Maddox dream RP was that he wasn't exactly clear what was a dream and what was real in that particular piece.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sidewinder
Go Back to Sleep
[ *  *  * ]
Lita Maivia,Jan 6 2016
01:16 PM
The problem with the Maddox dream RP was that he wasn't exactly clear what was a dream and what was real in that particular piece.

Yeah, something I tried to explain to him amidst his meltdown & cussing you and I out.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dai
Member Avatar
Captain SPARKLE~!!!
Creative Team
Sidewinder,Jan 6 2016
04:51 PM
I. myself, have handled my characters like that since coming to FIW. I do some stuff that is questionable whether the other members of the roster would even be aware of it. But at the same time I do it without expecting it to be what paves my way to victory.

I always took it that a lot of things happen - filmed or not - and sorta enter the collective consciousness, even if they enter in a way that can't / shouldn't be directly referenced. For example, NGIW as a fed might not have known that hide thought the Pirates were telling him to Kill All the Humans, but the idea that he was wigging out is common knowledge / fair game.

And yes, it helps if you do something which clearly can be directly referenced.

Also, as I recall, Bran's dream was poorly received because it was unnecessarily graphic.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jimmy Jimbo
Member Avatar
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[ *  *  *  * ]
Sid - do you mean this Carnivale? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carniv%C3%A0le

And re: Maddox, thank you for clearing that situation up. It's been a few months so I need ed the refresher.
[align=center]Posted Image[/align]
[size0]Thanks, Lita! :)

<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cc3300; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE ROUGAROU</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Rougarou" Silas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'6"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>296 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>The Bayou</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Led Zeppelin - 'When The Levee Breaks'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Methodical Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Sword of Damocles </option>
<option> - Chokeslam </option>
<option> - Bayou Leg Sweep </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Swamp Drop Brainbuster</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 1x Fighting Spirit Champion</option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Roleplay of the Year (Family Reunion)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Segment of the Year (The Rougarou Cometh)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Mr. GEIST/Deacon DEATH)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Newcomer of the Year</option>
<option> - 2014 & 2015 FIW Manager of the Year (Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Now do you believe in The Rougarou? </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cadetblue; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">#SWAGOLITION</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Condemned" Lucas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'4½"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>235 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Kandiyohi, Minnesota</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Black Sabbath - 'Hole in the Sky'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Athletic - Strong Style - Brawler</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Exploder Suplex </option>
<option> - Powerbomb </option>
<option> - German Suplex </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - The Manhattan Project</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - n/a </option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW ReVolt Match of the Year (vs. Nemesis, 6/6/15)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Nemesis)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Babyface of the Year</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ The Rougarou)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Just Give The Lunatic A Chance... </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: 14b8ff; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE MAN IN BLACK</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>Jim O'Brien </option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'7"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>290 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Grant's Lick, Kentucky</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Motörhead - 'Line in the Sand'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Strong Style Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Belly-to-Belly Suplex</option>
<option> - Saito Suplex </option>
<option> - Jackknife Powerbomb </option>
<option> - Hells Bells-plex</option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Hells Bells</option>
<option> - F-Bomb</option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 2x Fighting Spirit Champion </option>
<option> - 1x co-holder of the FIW Tag Team Championships of the World (w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 1x Ultimate Endurance Champion</option>
<option> - 1x Spirit Of Honour Champion</option>
<option> - 3x Dual Crown Champion</option>
<option> Other Cool Stuff: </option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Hall of Fame inductee</option>
<option> - 2004 TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2004 Feud Of The Year (w/ Silent Rage)</option>
<option> - 2004 Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Genocide)
<option> - 2005 1st Runner-Up, TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2005 Co-Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Anarchy In The UK)</option>
<option> - 2008 & 2012 Lady Luck Tournament Champion </option>
<option> - 2008 Grand Prix Tournament Champion</option>
<option> - 2008 Match of the Year participant (vs. Liam Mortell vs. Kiyoshi Nakahata @ FIW Summer of Sin) </option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW Feud of the Year participant (vs. Ash Koopa)</option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW (Face/Heel/Tweener) Turn of the Year</option>
<option> - 2009 ReVolt Match Of The Year participant (vs. Ethan Adams @ ReVolt Against The Champions X)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Tag Team Of The Year (The O'Brien Clan, w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Duo Of The Year (w/ Kendra O'Brien)</option>
<option> - April 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - April 2012 Storyline of the Month ("Dirty Deeds...")</option>
<option> - May 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - May 2012 Match of the Month participant (vs. Damien Holburn @ FIW Deadlock)</option>
<option> - July 2012 Co-Match of the Month participant (vs. Mad Dawg @ FIW ReVolt (07/01/12)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> So yeah, Jim was awesome. :-D </option>
</select></center>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Sidewinder
Go Back to Sleep
[ *  *  * ]
Yeah, that's the one.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lita Maivia
Member Avatar
Legend
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Dai,Jan 6 2016
12:19 PM
For example, NGIW as a fed might not have known that hide thought the Pirates were telling him to Kill All the Humans, but the idea that he was wigging out is common knowledge / fair game.

This isn't exactly the point (nor is it really on topic either) but any time hide was involved with the Pirates it was pure awesomeness. I miss all those misfits.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minister Wighty
Member Avatar
Opossum Queen of FIW
Admin
I mean, that's kind of an intrinsic problem to FIW, as I have found the few brief times I've had control here; FIW means something different to everyone playing in it, so it's hard to establish a hard-line narrative rulebook. NGIW was my baby, so I could say "this fed is part reality show, part scripted drama. Each individual wrestler does whatever character they wanna do, be that 100% themselves or 100% an identity they've invented. But everybody in the fed has to accept it all as kayfabe or it doesn't work." We even did something similar for the matches. I reference one of my favorite lines from movie history "it's as real as I want it to be, mama."

The only times I recall things really getting stretched was when one character or another went on a televised killing spree with no police involvement. Like, that shakes logic too hard. The sell is that the brain can accept there are demons and samurai and pirates, but if you break the nitty-gritty rules of reality there's this break in the suspension of disbelief that grinds your teeth. Like how we generally have no problem that The Undertaker is a wrestling zombieman, but it gets annoying and frustrating when partners don't talk to each other about miscommunications for a whole week until the next RAW just so we can see it on TV.

Now, I can pretend to apply this mindset to FIW for myself as much as I want, but because FIW means something different to everyone, if I tried to apply it as a general rule there'd be... pushback. Of a violent nature.

So, I mean, in the end... write what you wanna write. If we did flashbacks in NGIW they were filmed by the production truck as recreations a la Unsolved Mysteries or all those historical programs on cable. Same for dream sequences. Sometimes they were even animated. If there was a segment our characters didn't catch for the sake of a better story... they didn't catch it. It's a 24/7 show. There's an impossible amount of shit to catch up on while training your body and living your life.

But if you want to offer it up as part of your character narrative that the VIEWERS read but the CHARACTERS don't get to see... then just, make a note at the bottom of the RP. *shrugs* It seems simple enough to me. So long as nobody tries to abuse the system.
[align=center]Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jimmy Jimbo
Member Avatar
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[ *  *  *  * ]
Lots of food for thought, and I'm thankful for it. :) Sid and I did exchange a few PM's about this subject a little while ago but I really wanted to have a discussion on a public forum. These are questions I've always had for years, but I've never really known how to put it into words, who to ask or how to ask.

And I do apologize for coming across kinda whiny at certain points, I didn't mean to.

Ultimately, I just want to tell the best stories and present my characters the best ways possible. Roleplaying the Bergerons is some of the most gratifying and some of the most fun work that I've done, because I guess it's really the first time in a long time - or ever, maybe - that the majority of the fed is as excited and as invested in what I'm doing as I am.
[align=center]Posted Image[/align]
[size0]Thanks, Lita! :)

<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cc3300; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE ROUGAROU</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Rougarou" Silas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'6"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>296 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>The Bayou</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Led Zeppelin - 'When The Levee Breaks'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Methodical Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Sword of Damocles </option>
<option> - Chokeslam </option>
<option> - Bayou Leg Sweep </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Swamp Drop Brainbuster</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 1x Fighting Spirit Champion</option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Roleplay of the Year (Family Reunion)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Segment of the Year (The Rougarou Cometh)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Mr. GEIST/Deacon DEATH)</option>
<option> - 2014 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> - 2014 1st Runner Up, FIW Newcomer of the Year</option>
<option> - 2014 & 2015 FIW Manager of the Year (Butch Babineaux)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Now do you believe in The Rougarou? </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: cadetblue; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">#SWAGOLITION</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>"The Condemned" Lucas Bergeron</option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'4½"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>235 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Kandiyohi, Minnesota</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Black Sabbath - 'Hole in the Sky'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Athletic - Strong Style - Brawler</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Exploder Suplex </option>
<option> - Powerbomb </option>
<option> - German Suplex </option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - The Manhattan Project</option>
<option> - Honey Island Swamp Lock </option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - n/a </option>
<option>Other Cool Stuff:</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW ReVolt Match of the Year (vs. Nemesis, 6/6/15)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Feud of the Year (vs. Nemesis)</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Babyface of the Year</option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Duo of the Year (w/ The Rougarou)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> Just Give The Lunatic A Chance... </option>
</select></center>
<center><select style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt; background-color: 14b8ff; font-weight: bold; color:black">
<option style="color:black">THE MAN IN BLACK</option>
<option> Name: </option>
<option>Jim O'Brien </option>
<option>Height:</option>
<option>6'7"</option>
<option>Weight:</option>
<option>290 lbs.</option>
<option>Hometown:</option>
<option>Grant's Lick, Kentucky</option>
<option>Entrance Music:</option>
<option>Motörhead - 'Line in the Sand'</option>
<option>Wrestling Style:</option>
<option>Strong Style Powerhouse</option>
<option>Signature Moves:</option>
<option> - Belly-to-Belly Suplex</option>
<option> - Saito Suplex </option>
<option> - Jackknife Powerbomb </option>
<option> - Hells Bells-plex</option>
<option>Finishing Moves:</option>
<option> - Hells Bells</option>
<option> - F-Bomb</option>
<option>Title History:</option>
<option> - 2x Fighting Spirit Champion </option>
<option> - 1x co-holder of the FIW Tag Team Championships of the World (w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 1x Ultimate Endurance Champion</option>
<option> - 1x Spirit Of Honour Champion</option>
<option> - 3x Dual Crown Champion</option>
<option> Other Cool Stuff: </option>
<option> - 2015 FIW Hall of Fame inductee</option>
<option> - 2004 TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2004 Feud Of The Year (w/ Silent Rage)</option>
<option> - 2004 Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Genocide)
<option> - 2005 1st Runner-Up, TNT Superstar Of The Year</option>
<option> - 2005 Co-Match Of The Year participant (vs. Silent Rage @ FIW Anarchy In The UK)</option>
<option> - 2008 & 2012 Lady Luck Tournament Champion </option>
<option> - 2008 Grand Prix Tournament Champion</option>
<option> - 2008 Match of the Year participant (vs. Liam Mortell vs. Kiyoshi Nakahata @ FIW Summer of Sin) </option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW Feud of the Year participant (vs. Ash Koopa)</option>
<option> - 2008 1st Runner-Up, FIW (Face/Heel/Tweener) Turn of the Year</option>
<option> - 2009 ReVolt Match Of The Year participant (vs. Ethan Adams @ ReVolt Against The Champions X)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Tag Team Of The Year (The O'Brien Clan, w/ Jorge O'Brien)</option>
<option> - 2009 FIW Duo Of The Year (w/ Kendra O'Brien)</option>
<option> - April 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - April 2012 Storyline of the Month ("Dirty Deeds...")</option>
<option> - May 2012 Superstar of the Month</option>
<option> - May 2012 Match of the Month participant (vs. Damien Holburn @ FIW Deadlock)</option>
<option> - July 2012 Co-Match of the Month participant (vs. Mad Dawg @ FIW ReVolt (07/01/12)</option>
<option> </option>
<option> So yeah, Jim was awesome. :-D </option>
</select></center>
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Willie
Member Avatar
-=Badd Breed=-
[ *  *  *  * ]
It reminds me a little bit of when I wrote Perfectly Flawed which is still to this day the best Erik RP ive ever done. What you did added a little bit more layer to Si without taking away from his central character, who is this creepy and intimidating guy with a possible connection to supernatural forces. Maybe Si draws on the strength of his brother to help him win matches. Cornball as that sounds, they did the same shit for the Undertaker talking about communicating with the spirits of his dead parents and telling them "I have to go beat Kane up now, I'm sorry". It just works for the character and probably wouldnt work if anybody else did it.

My answer would be yeah, I like this stuff because it makes guys more complicated than my least favorite gimmick in the entire world, 'pro wrestler who wrestles other pro wrestlers professionally'. If you overdo it you tend to turn out being really confusing and nobody gets your character anymore. But you havent done that Jimmy I think these guys are still hitting it out of the park.

A further note: Nightmare now with SKOM would have been PERFECT. I am sorry that I sucked so hard I contributed to the destruction. :(
[align=center]<a href="http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/NGIWefed/media/eHollandbanner_zpsucovgkkx.png.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/NGIWefed/eHollandbanner_zpsucovgkkx.png" border="0" alt=" photo eHollandbanner_zpsucovgkkx.png"/></a>

<a href="https://twitter.com/ProjectHolland3"class="twitter-follow-button" data-show-count="false">Follow @ProjectHolland3</a>

Posted Image[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Pain
Member Avatar
The Insane Hero
[ *  * ]
Actually in NGIW, most of my RP's would be character development. Had an entire cast of characters that had really nothing to do with Cody's job. There was his ex girlfriend, Bill "Wildcat" Grant, Steve Bruce, Stiles and Cody's mysterious brother that would appear in the shadows from time to time.

At a point I even had a entire side storyline that had nothing to do with what was going on in the ring. Some people were offering Cody money to sellout, Cody was like "No way dude!" and... yeah. Dunno about the others but I liked it.

Don't know why, but I just found it easier to write a story than to write a promo.

Also dunno know if I'm helping anything but I like talking. :)
[align=center]Posted Image[/align]

Posted Image

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lita Maivia
Member Avatar
Legend
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Loved writing stories with you when Cody and April got to be involved with one another.

But like you I prefer to write stories rather than promos. I think everyone can tell that about me.
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mad Dawg
Member Avatar
Veteran
[ *  *  *  * ]
Dai,Jan 6 2016
01:19 PM
Also, as I recall, Bran's dream was poorly received because it was unnecessarily graphic.

Oh wow, yeah Bran's dream RP was definitely something else. I've done some dirty RP's in my day but even that one made me cringe slightly, especially considering I had to judge it cause I was running the place. Fun times...fun times..
Posted Image
Sig courtesy of Lita

[align=center]
Mad Dawg's Accomplishments

Dual Crown Champion
(2/12/16 - 9/24/16)

2X FIW Undisputed International Champion
(1/29/12 - 5/27/12)
(10/13/15 - 1/8/16)

Finisher of the Year 2011 - The Mauler
(Runner-Up) Feud of the Year 2011
(Runner-Up) Heel of the Year 2011
Storyline of the Month (Apr '11, June '11, Sept '11, Nov. '11, June '12)
Match of the Month (Feb. '12, June '12)

"Big Bad" Bobby Sanchez' Accomplishments

FIW Undisputed International Championship
(5/12/13 - 9/1/13)

2012 FIW Grand Prix Champion

Storyline of the Month (May '12)
[/align]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Feedback · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1

Black Water created by tiptopolive of the Zetaboards Theme Zone