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Headphones; Earphones/Headphones
Topic Started: Dec 26 2011, 08:43 PM (525 Views)
Eskobar M92
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For gaming and music Turtle Beach X12. Inexpensive but still great.
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ASLANS R0AR
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Ok, I need some further advice here. The old birthday is coming up and I started looking at a couple of these headphones that have been recommended (specifically the Spectrum 4xb and the Turtle Beach x12), until I realized all the extra cords and stuff that are required for the setup :(

My problem is that I don't have space/setup to leave this stuff plugged in all the time to the Xbox; I just need one that will ONLY plug into the Xbox controller; is my only choice the cheapo headset made by Microsoft? I am using the old one that came with my original Xbox, and it works fine but I would like a bigger "sound" experience. Any advice? Basically the question is, what is the best headset I can buy that only plugs into the Xbox controller. thanks.
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SgtMaj AJJ
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What's your stereo set up? TB's include a 13' inline RCA cable that piggy backs onto your l/r channels at the receiver or television.

If your just going for chat, MS has a decent model for around $20 available through Best Buy.
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ASLANS R0AR
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SgtMaj AJJ
May 17 2012, 08:14 PM
What's your stereo set up? TB's include a 13' inline RCA cable that piggy backs onto your l/r channels at the receiver or television.

If your just going for chat, MS has a decent model for around $20 available through Best Buy.
An old crappy stereo hooked up to the TV that sometimes works!

I've got that basic headset (though older) to use for chat, but would like to experience game sounds through it too (on both ears).

If the RCA is plugged into the TV, then theoretically I could just keep the headphones tucked behind the TV (disconnected from the controller) when I'm not using it? This is the issue - have a small living room, and can't have cords laying around too much; If I could tuck it away behind the TV that might work, then all I would have to do is plug the headset into the controller each time I use it correct? I also wonder about keeping it plugged into the TV and Xbox; sound will still come out of the speakers with that stuff plugged in wouldn't it? Sorry for my noobishness . . .
Edited by ASLANS R0AR, May 17 2012, 08:24 PM.
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SgtMaj AJJ
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Yes!

I keep mine hanging behind the TV when not in use. It's a male/female connector. They plug into the tv. The cables from the Xbox plug into them.

The mic portion is connected into the controller headset port.

Volume control is independent from the tv. You can mute the tv and just hear through the headset or both.
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The Gengo
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On my main TV, I have Turtle Beach x31s. These are wireless, except for the wire required for XBL chat, which plugs into the controller.

I have had a few issues along the way with regard to interference/feedback/echoing (not sure the correct term, but being in parties HAS on occasion caused my headset to repeat what anyone says from their mic and mine [on a delay] which makes the conversation echo).

But (depending on your setup) it works exactly as described earlier. You can see more about it (though it's now the x32) here.

My only complaint (again, with the x31s), aside from the aforementioned occasional echoing is that the "ChatBoost" mix isn't more controllable. My son uses these and can never seem to adjust to having headphones on. When using this versus the normal Xbox headsets, he is significantly louder.
Edited by The Gengo, May 18 2012, 01:18 PM.
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ASLANS R0AR
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thanks for the advice everyone, I'm going with the Turtle Beach x12's with the Optical audio adapter :) I can't wait to try it!!!!
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Eskobar M92
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ASLANS R0AR
May 18 2012, 02:11 PM
thanks for the advice everyone, I'm going with the Turtle Beach x12's with the Optical audio adapter :) I can't wait to try it!!!!
X12 is great. I use it with HDMI cable & USB. I haven't tried it with optical adapter. You bought DDS2?
Edited by Eskobar M92, May 19 2012, 03:37 PM.
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ASLANS R0AR
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I haven't bought it yet. I asked for it for my b-day :)
what's a DDS2?
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Eskobar M92
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Digital surround sound amplifier.
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TheOneInYellow
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Eskobar M92
May 27 2012, 06:33 AM
Digital surround sound amplifier.

Correct!

ASLANS R0AR
May 21 2012, 01:22 AM
I haven't bought it yet. I asked for it for my b-day :)
what's a DDS2?
I have the Turtle Beach EarForce DSS 7.1 sound processor, which has been discontinued in favour of the DSS2. Before I can explain, please read the following.

The Xbox 360 can only do surround sound using Dolby Digital. This is unlike the PS3 or many home AV/V receivers, in which an actual surround sound amplifier/processor will split an incoming signal (say through HDMI or audio cables) into different channels (if the source, say BluRay media, has audio tracks for each separate channel on disc. Some films and audio music discs have studio grade audio tracks that are the same as the master audio!).
Very good amplifiers will amplify each separate channel, and send it out though analogue connections. You then connect each individual speaker (front speakers, satellite speakers, and subwoofer) to the surround sound amplifier/processor, and hey presto, surround sound.

But for many computers and gaming consoles, such as the Xbox 360, the console does not have such processor's or multiple audio outputs for separate surround sound speakers.
This is where Dolby Digital comes into play. It is basically a virtual (synthetic, artificial) software based way of making surround sound. Many Xbox 360 games are coded for both stereo and virtual surround sound (5.1) audio through a Toslink/optical output.
Xbox 360 consoles output in analogue stereo (white/left and red/right) or digital (optical), but depending on your Xbox 360, you may or may not need an adapter.

To play this virtual surround sound from games or other media, you will need a separate Dolby Digital amplifier with a Toslink/optical cable input (and change the consoles audio settings).

This is where Astro Gaming's Mix Amp and TurtleBeach's EarForce sound processors come in. Both require power, and both allow you to connect a Toslink/optical cable from your Xbox 360 to your aforementioned Dolby Digital sound processors. This then outputs the virtual surround sound signal to your headphones of your choice (if you bought the sound processors standalone) or with their accompanying headphones bundles/product lines.

In other words, all you need is just cable from your Xbox 360 (or two if you need to power up the device using USB cables) to your Dolby Digital device, and an output, in this case headphones. Conversely, Dolby Digital amplifiers can also be used to connect to surround sound speakers (many off-the-shelf A/V equipment have Dolby Digital processing capabilities on board).
The DSS requires USB power, so a USB cable and a Toslink/optical cable need to come from your Xbox 360 (make sure you use the USB from the back of the original Xbox 360's, as that provides better, stable power, and is what is recommended by TurtleBeach).

My DSS has it's own volume and bass volume, but as I use headphones that require serious amplification (the AKG K 701's headphones, and Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 Pro in-ears monitors), I turn the volume to max on the DSS (effectively bypassing the internal volume, or in geek speak, turning it to unity gain), use another cable to attach to my headphone amp, and connect my headphones. I use my headphone amp's volume attenuation (knob..ha ha ha, I know) for, you guessed it, volume.

The DSS2 is an evolution of the original DSS by introducing ways of moving each of the separate virtual surround speakers in virtual space, so you can fine tune where you want the virtual speakers to be in your head when using headphones. If you own the original DSS, there is no need to upgrade, as I find this feature frivolous and sonically damaging.

In my opinion, the Astro Gaming Dolby Digital Processors, the Mix Amp's, are far better in audio quality, build, and ease of use, but are quite expensive. The TurtleBeach is cheaper and decent enough.

The pro's of this approach is space-saving, less clutter, ease of use, and decent quality.

However, the internal amp of such Dolby Digital devices is not that great (can omit noise through the signal, possibly from poor overall build quality and USB power from the Xbox 360 PSU).

Depending on the quality of your headphones, the effect can be amazing or useless. This is why I choose to use quality headphones at the cost of using headphones with ear mics. When I play solo games, I use the DSS with my headphones. When playing multiplayer games, I use a headset, and switch to my amplifier and speakers using analogue connections to my Xbox 360.
You may prefer to have just one solution, so a headphone with a mic will be useful. I hate game-branded headphones, since most are awful at audio quality to me (when compared to what I have), but if I had money, headphone companies such as AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser produce some very cool headphones with mics, but as I just described, I prefer my speakers in multiplayer, and headphones in solo gaming).

They also use optical cables which, in theory, are supposed to be of great quality (they can be), but they can also introduce lots of something called Jitter. In audio speak, Jitter means timing errors.
If the optical cable has kinks, or degrades, then the audio signal will not pass with all audio information; timing errors may occur, so different parts of the signal may come at different times.
In studios, a stupid amount of money is thrown in to stop as much jitter as possible, with Digital-Audio-Converters being the front line. Also, in the A/V world and studios, optical cables are a no no :nono: ; when working with music, audio detail and information is key to recording, mixing and mastering, so jitter needs to be minimised as much as possible. optical cables are unreliable or high-maintenance.



Believe it or not, this wall-of-text, or Yellow-length post is actually a big list of summarised topics (hence the multiple paragraphs); I have tried to be as succinct as I possibly can.

Hope this helps! <3
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Eskobar M92
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I wonder if it's worth it for the virtual surround. It means more cables.

Also I read DSS1 is 7.1 and DSS2 is 4.1, is this true?

Edit: I like to use stereo on all 5 speakers on home surround system (makes it louder on all speakers) is it the same with headphones. Will it be digital stereo, better sound?
Edited by Eskobar M92, May 27 2012, 11:53 PM.
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KouMoady243
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My mate is in the US for a month and he's bringing me home Astro A30s and a mixamp :) obviously I'm paying buy at least I don't have to pay the insane postage!
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TheOneInYellow
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Eskobar M92
May 27 2012, 11:08 PM
I wonder if it's worth it for the virtual surround. It means more cables.

Also I read DSS1 is 7.1 and DSS2 is 4.1, is this true?

Edit: I like to use stereo on all 5 speakers on home surround system (makes it louder on all speakers) is it the same with headphones. Will it be digital stereo, better sound?

[Note: Sorry for this long post, I again hope you find it useful, and not condescending... <3 ].

I knew I forgot something; I highlighted that the DSS2 has a feature which I found sonically damaging, but I never spoke about the core problem with the device.

The original EarForce DSS does not output the original Dolby Digital of the Xbox 360, which is Dolby Digital 5.1. The new DSS2 does, but has it's own problems.

The original DSS outputs at 7.1, which is crap since these added channels are not from the original source (games, films, and so on) but are added from the device. This, I find, to be shit, as this will be adverse to the original audio.

The new DSS2 outputs 5.1, which is great!
However, it is almost the same as the DSS, and adds features (so called EQ's and changing the angle of the virtual speakers). In theory, that is not bad, but in practice, I bet there would be distortion or poor sound quality if you don't make the best adjustments.
Fr example, there are some idiots who pump far too much bass into every virtual speaker (rather than the one bass volume of the original DSS), which ruins the audio experience. Likewise, unless you have revealing headphones (note does not have to be expensive, but better than norm; clarity, dynamics and resolution are key here), the changing of angles for the virtual speakers will be moot, or can cause further poor audio quality or experience.

At the time, only the DSS was available at a good price, so I picked it up. If I had the chance to upgrade, I would buy the Astro Gaming Mix Amps.
On the other hand, the new DSS2 is a better option if you want a cheap surround sound set-up with headphones, as it does do proper 5.1 output.

When using a stereo headphone, the effect of virtual speakers will be different to a proper two-channel speaker set-up.
The Dolby Digital devices for consoles use a stereo connection (3.5mm TRS mini-jacks), but the device has already processed the sound and outputs this through a stereo connection.
How that works with headphones is that specific parts of the headphone driver will vibrate differently to another part, stimulating the 'multiple speakers in-your-head' effect.
So, the device does not output stereo exactly, but processes virtual speakers to be output via a stereo connection. The result is a heavily processed stereo-signal which causes headphone drivers to vibrate with more variation than a proper stereo source.
The choosing of headphones is vital here, as some cannot handle the load, and distortion/bad quality will come through.



As for your latter question: stereo is surround sound.
This is something that mass market media and companies have tried to hide or not speak about for generations.
Stereo has always been surround sound, as the idea was based from the problems of mono recordings and playback systems before the turn of the century.
When two speakers were introduced with stereo recordings, image and depth were now possible, something mono could and cannot ever do.

If you play back a stereo recording or media through more than two channels, you spoil the image and depth effects; sure, it may sound ok, but it is most certainly not reproduced (play backed) well. If you want to play stereo, stick two a two channel speaker system, or configure your surround sound to output to only the front two channels (or use headphones, WIN!).

Speakers, by their nature, need to output sound into a large volume of air (your room), which will heavily affect the sound. Room acoustics is a major problem for playing back music (which is why studios and audiophiles, correctly, do room acoustic treatments first before getting equipment). Room acoustics is number one responsibility of audio reproduction. After that, power, as speakers need a lot of juice to pump out audio depending on the room size.

Headphones, conversely, output audio in a ridiculously small area of air (between the headphone driver and your ears). Earphones have an even smaller area of air (ear canals). Because of this, headphones don't need any where near as much power as proper speakers do (unless we are talking about the AKG K1000's; the less spoken about those, the better), and room acoustics is virtually null and void.
What's more is that audio quality can be much, much higher than equivalently or higher priced stereo speaker systems, as headphone/earphone drivers have a large area of technological room to manoeuvre and advance (low-power, and not much air to push). This also explains those very high-priced headphones and headphone amps; you can push headphone technology very far, and superseed speaker systems, at a fraction of the cost of super-expensive speaker systems.
The only thing you will miss out on is impact and energy, which speakers can only do; I love good adequate levels of bass in my headphones, but it does not make my body rumble (shush at the back!).
Some headphones, however, do need a lot more power than other headphones, but normally not speaker power quantities.



If you place two speakers (left and right) at a good distance apart, somewhat away from walls (depends on speaker and bass output), and make sure that the tweeter drivers (the very tiny speaker dome) are at ear level, you then you have a decent set-up. You can use something to tilt the speaker(s) upwards towards you ear, or some stands (as long as whatever you use is solid, or causes no vibrations).
Just to say, some speakers don't have a tweeter, but just a mid-range and woofer drivers; the mid-range driver should be at ear level. If your speaker has only one driver, then this should point towards your ears.

As an example, below is my speaker, the JohnBlue Audio Art JB3 near-field loudspeaker, designed by Tommy Wu (founder and designer) and wired up by Mr. K. E. Lee (technical advisor).

It combines a tweeter by using one of the smallest paper whizzer cones in the world, with a phase plug cone and a waveguide woofer.
The entire driver is only 3", and looks small, but looks (from the 1st and 2nd pics) are very deceiving. The driver is large in depth, and has a gigantic double-magnet on the back for it's size (3rd pic). It is made in-house exclusively to the company who made the speaker.
Most off-the-shelf speakers have stupidly small magnets, including large (boombox) speakers from electrical stores; the magnets from this speaker are unusual for such a small driver.

The bass is produced by that magnet and the speaker box design; studio-grade and very good speakers are only good if the design of the 'box' is well-made, which is expensive.
This is why cheap, large woofer-based off-the-shelf speakers are made in large quantity, as the box design is crap. You can get great, well made small speakers, especially in the A/V surround sound world, but many from shops are not worth it; always listen and check those speakers, and judge for yourself if they are good (in your own home).

Only by listening will you be able to say whether you find the depth and imaging to be good for a recording.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image



I hope this helps, and please, don't hate me for my explanations; I have tried to summarise and explain topics about audio reproduction and Dolby Digtial devices to the best of my ability.

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porottaja
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TheOneInYellow
May 28 2012, 01:47 PM
[Massive wall of text]
This must be a new record! :clap:
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Scruff 815
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TheOneInYellow
May 28 2012, 01:47 PM
I have tried to summarise and explain topics about audio reproduction and Dolby Digtial devices to the best of my ability.
You can't summarize something with a massive wall of text. A summary is by definition brief and concise. That wasn't even close to a summary. :eek: :blah:
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Eskobar M92
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Ok, thanks Yellow. Sorry for making you make long posts, lol.

Let me clarify. On movies its good, you can hear a car crash behind you on the left and thunder/lightning on the right. For music I prefer stereo because it sounds better, so I change the equalizer/setting to 5.1 stereo. I just wonder if that can be done on the DSS2 so I can listen to music and play games/movies. Or do I need to change cables back to 2.1 stereo.

I have the TB X12. Right now if I turn the volume up too high it gets distorted but doesn't break the speakers (thankfully) Will it be louder/undistorted with DSS2. Also there's a slight background hiss, nothing like the Tritton's I had though. The travel TV I have I could control the background noise by turning up the TV volume and volume down on the Headset. Which means no background noise and perfect loud sound.

Now on my Samsung TV I can't do that because there is no 3.5 jack, so I have to use Red/white adapter to 3.5 jack. The TV is then set at a certain volume.
Edited by Eskobar M92, May 28 2012, 11:40 PM.
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TheOneInYellow
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SensoryFour34
May 28 2012, 09:34 PM
TheOneInYellow
May 28 2012, 01:47 PM
I have tried to summarise and explain topics about audio reproduction and Dolby Digtial devices to the best of my ability.
You can't summarize something with a massive wall of text. A summary is by definition brief and concise. That wasn't even close to a summary. :eek: :blah:
True, but the entire posts that I made was not one long topic, but multiple topics split into paragraphs, and I split the posts into parts using the [hr] break line BBCode.

As I said, I tried to summarise the main points of audio reproduction, Dolby Digital devices, and a brief of speaker placement theory, all in separate paragraphs.

I tried to help, but I should expect to get a backlash. :shrug:
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ASLANS R0AR
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Yellow, my fellow, you are indeed a sound connoisseur! I don't understand most of what you posted above, but appreciate that an expert on such matters dwells among us! Thanks for your attention to this stuff. I look forward to trying out my TB x12's!
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