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| Lost; The TV show, not an exclamation that I don't know where I am. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 31 2012, 09:46 AM (163 Views) | |
| Scruff 815 | Mar 31 2012, 09:46 AM Post #1 |
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The Arbiter
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So before you go on, you should know that I have an obsession with LOST that borders on religious fanaticism, and having seen every episode a minimum of four times I have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all things LOST. Also this is going to be particularly spoilerific for anyone who hasn't watched the show. If you haven't and you want to, I would suggest leaving right now so as not to spoil it for yourself. For me, LOST is the best TV show that ever has or ever will be. I don't think there's ever been a show like it, and I don't think there will be again for a looong time. It perfectly combined the best qualities of mainsteam network TV (easily digestible 40-minute one-off stories, happy endings, sex & violence) with the best of cable TV (characters built in the grey area, actions having real consequences to the story, sex & violence). Not only that but it also had the best original soundtrack I've ever heard in a TV show, a truly ensemble cast of characters, many of whom were INCREDIBLE actors, and the balls to proverbially say "fuck you" to both the critics and the audience whenever the storyline demanded it. And from 121 episodes I only recall 2 real stinkers. Unfortunately, much like The Sopranos it's impossible to discuss the show without someone complaining about the ending. So here's where I stand on it - it was the only way the show COULD end. People focus too much on the mystery and the questions of it. And yes, the show was to a degree built that way. But mysteries are only any good the first time around; the story underneath has to be strong enough to hold up on a second viewing. Compare The Sixth Sense to The Usual Suspects, for instance. And once you strip away the mysteries of LOST, what you've got left is a beautiful, bittersweet character drama that doesn't fall into the usual "everyone lived happily ever after" OR "terrbile things happen" camps that most TV lives in. On the specifics of the reveal in the finale, everyone focusses on the "flash-sideways" reveal, but that would be a mistake. For one thing, the flash-sideways were only a tiny part of the overall story, amounting to around 10 minutes of half the episodes in the last season alone. Also a surprising amount of people didn't understand the reveal, and thought that it meant that everyone was dead all along. If you want to get onto the Island stuff, then it's not explicitly said, but the impression given is that the Island is the origin of human life; perhaps the soul or some other indescribable facet of our nature. And referring back to my earlier comment about an encyclopaedic knowledge, the only big mystery not answered is "what's the deal with Walt's powers" and honestly, I'm fine with that. Not everything needs explaining. LOST was, in the end, a show about life, and it captured it beautifully. Sometimes amazing things happen to people who deserve it (Desmond and Penny). Sometimes you're a nice guy and you try your best but it just wasn't meant to be (Jack). Sometimes you have a huge effect on everyone but you die before you can see it (Locke). I love LOST. |
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| Scruff 815 | Mar 31 2012, 12:00 PM Post #2 |
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The Arbiter
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A couple more points I neglected to mention in my first post... The flash-sideways storyline, controversial as it was, is absolutely vital to the show. If it wasn't for that, then almost everyone has a horrible shitty story arc where they do something good and are then immediately murdered in cold blood. Pretty much the only people who'd get a happy ending are Bernard & Rose and Desmond & Penny. Addressing some kind of afterlife turns that miserable shit-fest into a bittersweet dose of existentialism. Nom. Also, it's important to address the foreshadowing. Lots of people complained that it seemed the show was made up as it went along (even though that is true of pretty much EVERY SINGLE TV SHOW EVER), but it's simply not true. Time travel is first mentioned in season 2. The overarching black vs. white, Jacob vs. Smokey thing is alluded to in the VERY FIRST EPISODE. John Locke's second flashback episode foreshadows his entire story arc of being manipulated by Smokey. And best of all is once you know that the on-Island iterations of Christian, Yemi, Dave, Harper and Locke 2.0 are all just Smokey, you'll notice that they all act exactly the same. They all have this cold, stern, detached, yet somehow amused expression and attitude that they previously lacked. Even though Titus Welliver hadn't been cast yet. It's amazing. Honestly, if you haven't rewatched it, you must do so. There is so, so much to notice second time around. But maybe it's just me. LOST was always more than a TV show to me. It's not to say that the shows I watch now lack emotional depth or anything, but since LOST ended all other TV just feels so.. ordinary
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| ASLANS R0AR | Mar 31 2012, 01:25 PM Post #3 |
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Spartan Pops
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You give me a lot to think about Scruff, and perhaps I'll watch it again, but I haven't had the desire yet. You're obviously much more of an expert on LOST than I am, but my personal take on the first time through is that 1) I agree that the storyline about the development of characters (development of people) is a huge component of LOST, and very well done. 2) I do think though that the "mystery" parts (all the questions) were a bigger part of the series than maybe you're allowing for (just my opinion), and depending on whether or not a person likes stories to "tie things up," you may be disappointed with how it ended. That said, I hope you're not a "religious LOST fanatic" in the sense of being unwilling to consider other views, and/or labeling/marginalizing anyone who might disagree with you! Because, I am open to having my mind changed on the matter, just want to be honest with where I am right now. There's no debating that it was a unique, landmark show for sure. One could even say it influenced Western culture more than any other TV show. |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Mar 31 2012, 10:39 PM Post #4 |
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Spartan Pops
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Just wanted to add that I can't think of any show that was more intriguing, more fascinating than LOST. The weekly cliffhangers were pretty amazing; we watched most of the seasons on DVD, so could watch several at a time. |
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| SensoryFour34 | Apr 1 2012, 12:45 AM Post #5 |
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Elite Slayer Tryhard
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I watched about three season of it and really liked it. The only thing is, it got to the point where every episode just brought up more questions and never really gave any answers. Eventually, I just wasn't even sure what was going on anymore, so I just had to stop watching. |
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| Scruff 815 | Apr 1 2012, 09:33 AM Post #6 |
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The Arbiter
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Aslans - I am totally open to grown-up discussions about the show, acknowledging the flaws whilst also defending aspects of it. What I'm not open to is idiots screaming "NOTHING EVER HAPPENS ITS JUST PEOPLE RUNNING THROUGH THE JUNGLE WHY ARENT THEY OFF THE ISLAND YET" etc etc. Thankfully none of those people appear to be here ![]() I absolutely agree that the mystery of it was a huge element. Every week I'd watch the episode that aired. Then I'd disect it over at Lostpedia. Then I'd watch it again a couple of days later, the whole time theorising with other like-minded people on the Lostpedia forums. I would spend every summer putting hours a day into debating and discussing the pressing cliff-hangers and loose ends. What I mean is that the mysteries only matter the first time around. Once you know the answers to the questions, the questions themselves are no longer interesting. Which is why the meat of the story needs to be more than "question/answer". Again, look at how shit the Sixth Sense is once you know the big twist (or any other Shyamalan film [apart from Unbreakable] for that matter), whereas things like The Usual Suspects, Saw and Fight Club are still excellent even once you know the twist or the answers. Also with LOST being built the way it was, i.e. incredibly fragmented storytelling, a lot of the questions were answered in ways you probably didn't realise, especially if you've only seen the whole show once. You'd be surprised how many people still don't know why there were polar bears on the Island. Aside from teensy mysteries that don't matter ("Who built the rope bridge in season 1?"), the only really big unanswered question is regarding Walt's powers. If you have unanswered questions regarding anything else, I'd be happy to help ![]() Sensory - in my opinion you quit just as the show got amazing. For me the first season is super-slow, season two is really good but slow, and the third was even slower up until the last few episodes. From then on, the seasons dramatically shorten in length, and you start getting way more answers than you do questions. It's funny when you rewatch it. Season 6 has several episodes where key locations get destroyed and most of the cast get massacred. Season 1 has an episode about "WHO STOLE THE BOTTLES OF WATER??!?!?!?!?!?!?!" Some people find certain shows frustrating watched in a week-on-week basis (e.g. 24) - you might want to try hammering them out in DVD form, where you can watch several episodes a night. It's worth it. Just don't obsess too much about the questions
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| ASLANS R0AR | Apr 1 2012, 04:37 PM Post #7 |
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Spartan Pops
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Great post, Scruff, you've given me a lot to think about! Even moved me a bit closer to wanting to watch it again! The Sixth Sense analogy is helpful; If I got into watching it again, is there an episode by episode guide that you recommend that would follow the pattern you're describing? Does Lostpedia have something like that, or is it something I would just have to piece together from different sources (I guess it might depend on the episode!)? Scruff, since you used it as an example, why were there polar bears again? I think I had an answer to that once, but can't remember now. ![]() And Sensory, I would agree with Scruff; the first season is a bit slow, but I would say watch at least 3-4 seasons before you decide whether or not to follow through with it (it sounds like a big time commitment I know, but I think it's worth it). |
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| CallUpChuck | Apr 1 2012, 05:40 PM Post #8 |
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Brigadier
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Brought in by Dharma researchers, kept at Hydra station. I am also a LOST fan. Although clearly not a big one as Scruff, but the show brings back great memories. Also watching it as they aired gave me a week of wondering what the hell happened last episode. |
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| Scruff 815 | Apr 1 2012, 06:13 PM Post #9 |
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The Arbiter
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Aye, go to http://www.lostpedia.com, type in the name of the episode, and peruse. Every episode page has a section detailing all the easter eggs etc and links to other episodes. It's most useful
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| SensoryFour34 | Apr 1 2012, 07:10 PM Post #10 |
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Elite Slayer Tryhard
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I might try watching it again since it would be a lot better to watch a few episodes at a time. What really amazes me is just how obsessed with this show Scruff really is (and all the Yellow-sized posts ).
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| ASLANS R0AR | Apr 1 2012, 09:38 PM Post #11 |
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Spartan Pops
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awesome, thanks! |
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| Scruff 815 | Apr 2 2012, 06:50 AM Post #12 |
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The Arbiter
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You were warned
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| The Gengo | Apr 2 2012, 08:48 AM Post #13 |
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Captain
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I watched it in its entirety and thought the ending was awful. But this could have been because most ( if not all ) of the people involved in the series said the island was NOT purgatory - and that is sure what it seemed like at the end. |
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| Scruff 815 | Apr 2 2012, 07:00 PM Post #14 |
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The Arbiter
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Remember when I said earlier how loads of people didn't understand the ending? The Island and everything that happened on it REALLY HAPPENED. (by which I mean for the purposes of the show's storytelling, not like it's a work of non-fiction) The purgatory part was the parts set in Los Angeles in the flash-sideways in Season 6. |
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| The Gengo | Apr 2 2012, 07:13 PM Post #15 |
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I'll take your word for it. I seem to recall the final frame being Jack walking into the light. Again not trying to argue with you about your passion. I really enjoyed the first season, after that - it was 50/50 ( for me ). There were some iconic moments for sure, and some great characters - but I feel for all the mystery they set up ( which, again to me, was the compelling part that kept me coming back for more ) was never fully resolved - at least, not to MY satisfaction. It had great potential, and delivered on sombunall it. |
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| Scruff 815 | Apr 2 2012, 07:27 PM Post #16 |
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The Arbiter
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The final sequence was Jack dying on the Island, interspersed with sideways Jack in a church in LA walking into the light. Season 6 begins with Jack waking up on the Oceanic 815 that doesn't crash - immediately after dying on the Island. It's a very important distinction; the purgatory thing definitely happened, and a lot of people didn't like it. But for it to be happening in the flash-sideways in S6 rather than "on the Island the whole time" means that you're not liking around 25% of season 6, rather than 75% of the whole show. I'm not griping at you though, just clarifying a very important issue
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| Deadpool Psycko | Apr 2 2012, 07:53 PM Post #17 |
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The Meta
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On a sci-fi level, yeah. It's hard to find a comparison. Until they end, so far, the only two I can think of are The Walking Dead and Falling Skies. Sadly, I don't watch much cable-TV so I relegate everything else to rentals and Netflix so I'm surely backed up on both. Other than that, the only shows that I can watch over and over with 100% intrigue, and walk the realistic line are Law & Order: SVU and Rescue Me. I never finished them but I desperately want to finish the remaining seasons of Oz and The Soprano's. Think I may throw Lost back on again. So many great eps, one of my favorite of all being The Longest Con. |
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| Deadpool Psycko | Apr 2 2012, 07:57 PM Post #18 |
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I kind of looked at it as that they all got to experience their own personal "Crossing over" in re-living their final moments peppered under their most cherished and memorable points in their lives. It had a very predictable end, I'd say from mid-season two, but I liked how they presented it. They weren't "just dead" or "stuck in purgatory". There was a nice layered feature to it. Just glad it didn't drag out for like 20 seasons lol. I thought it was just under perfect in terms of presentation, length and interest. EVERY episode left you jaw gaped on the floor and bashing on that NEXT EPISODE option. I lost many needed hours of sleep and I wouldn't take them back for anything. Show was too damn good. |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Apr 3 2012, 02:12 PM Post #19 |
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Spartan Pops
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This discussion has been helpful, but I'm still not convinced I want to watch the series again (big time investment!). What I would like is a concise summary of the entire series either in book or article form that describes (in your opinion) an accurate overview of the series. Maybe if I understood more, I would want to watch it again. I want to understand the ending better, how it fits in with 1) what actually happened on the island and 2) the role of purgatory. I tried reading Lostpedia's summary of season 6, and that was helpful but too long and taken up with details. Any suggestions on an overview article? Maybe it doesn't exist. |
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| Deadpool Psycko | Apr 3 2012, 02:48 PM Post #20 |
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The Meta
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I agree it's NOT an easy subject of "dead" to latch on to. If anything, IMO, it's Abrams personal interpretation of The Afterlife where it's not as cut and dried as Life - Death - Purgatory - Heaven - Hell. There are "in between" areas that don't account for the, let's use the word "physicality" of Spirits. It's more like an eternal memory if that makes sense...but it's still somewhat yours to shape/experience rather than just "remember". |
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5:51 PM Jul 13