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| Free healthcare; STOP OBAMACARE says Mitt Romney | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 17 2012, 01:02 PM (444 Views) | |
| CallUpChuck | Jun 28 2012, 07:23 PM Post #21 |
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Brigadier
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I am interested in the precedence that this new decision has on federal-state relations. |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Jun 28 2012, 09:02 PM Post #22 |
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Spartan Pops
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That definitely is an interesting aspect of this. Also I think being worked out in the Immigration issue too. |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Jun 28 2012, 09:04 PM Post #23 |
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Spartan Pops
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Glad to hear from a variety of perspectives, esp. from within the field in the US, though I wish you would tell us what you really think.
Edited by ASLANS R0AR, Jun 28 2012, 09:05 PM.
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| SgtMaj AJJ | Jun 29 2012, 06:48 PM Post #24 |
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My wife and I, both IN (not sure what the caps is for but okay :P ) the Healthcare industry, can completely relate. It gets really old! Tired and worn out. There are so many "quick-wins" that can easily be accomplished, but aren't part of the overarching dialog, but yet so many more that are too complex to answer easily. Especially under the current system of Providers and Payers. Even though it gets really old, the voices of our Drs/RNs (Providers) and Insurance Companies (Payors) are too valuable a voice to go away or get lost in the shuffle. My company fully adopted a majority of the HCR provisions two months before the SCOTUS ruling yesterday. That's a real positive step, albeit a minor blip, that helps motivate me to stay engaged. |
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| The Gengo | Jun 29 2012, 08:00 PM Post #25 |
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A few problems that I have had (I don't know if I've commented on them previously and I'm too lazy to look): 1) We get our insurance through my wife's job. She is a public school teacher. Prior to 2011, her school district "went alone" and purchased their own insurance - meaning, their purchasing power (if something like that REALLY exists in the HCI) was limited to the number of employees in her district. Starting in 2011, they started to participate in the state system which is comprised of many, many (hundreds?) other school districts. The idea behind this is that the purchasing power is now increased, "buying in bulk" so to speak, so that the premiums would decrease. However, for the same coverage, our premiums went from just over $900/month to just over $1,000/month. 2) Since being on the new insurance, I had an incident of a kidney stone. It was my first kidney stone, and as such, I had NO idea what was going on - just that I would cycle between extreme pain and nausea. (I later found out that it was only 4mm and I was being a baby ). So I went to the emergency room (instead of waiting until Monday to see my Family Care Physician). Well all hell broke loose - and I still don't understand why it is so complicated.With this new insurance, I am responsible for the first $5,000 of care, after which I only pay 20%. The insurance company (apparently) DID buy some of the normal prices down, but it still cost me nearly $2,500 out of pocket for 2 hours total time in the hospital, some pain meds delivered via IV, an xray/catscan (I don't remember which), and some pain meds to take home. I literally was in the hospital, saw a doctor, had an IV and some blood drawn, had a scan, was told the news and sent on my way with a bottle of pills. Now here is the really fun part - the amount of bills I received. I got a bill from the lab that did my blood work, a bill from the X-ray department/company/whatever, a bill from an anesthesiologist (the one who gave me the IV w/pain meds), the doctor, and the hosptial itself. FIVE separate bills/people to pay for one 2 hour visit! Again, my insurance negotiated a lower rate for each service, but paid $0. It seems to me, as a layperson on the outside looking in, that I pay $12,000/year (not including copays and the like) for someone to negotiate slightly cheaper rates of service. |
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| crazybydefault | Jun 29 2012, 11:01 PM Post #26 |
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Grenade Honker
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Personally, I don't have many gripes with the new legislation. I can see where the individual mandate would cause concern for those who want as little of government interference in their lives as possible, but the rest of the law seems to be a good step forward in the healthcare industry. It shifts the current system's operation of "profit > patients" the other way around. Obviously, I'm only 18 years old, and therefore have little experience out in the "real world" on my own, but that's the way I see it! |
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| Enfinit | Jun 30 2012, 05:58 AM Post #27 |
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I only have one thing when it comes to medical care, as well as welfare. You see, at the national park I used to volunteer at (Ocala National in central Florida), there's directions for vistors to not feed the wild animals, for fear that the animals may become dependant on us, and thus unable to support their own selves. Class dismissed. Edited by Enfinit, Jun 30 2012, 06:00 AM.
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| SgtMaj AJJ | Jul 1 2012, 04:30 PM Post #28 |
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Class in session. There's a difference between wild animals and the elderly, poor, sick, out of work, and needy. Class dismissed. |
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| Scruff 815 | Jul 1 2012, 05:59 PM Post #29 |
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The Arbiter
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That logic seems flawed to me. For one thing, to take that literally, then even going to see a doctor would count as being dependant on someone else; ergo if you are ill, you must cure yourself. Also, with free - or at least cheaper - healthcare, someone with cancer might be able to afford their treatments where they couldn't before. As a result they don't lose their job and never end up on welfare, like they would've done otherwise. In which case it would actually SAVE taxpayer money. If you saw a girl getting raped in the street, would you say "I'm not going to rescue you, you should be able to support yourself" or would you help out? I might be taking things to extremes here but it's the same principle. |
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| Enfinit | Jul 1 2012, 10:17 PM Post #30 |
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Your last example was a little far-fetched, yes. I wouldn't put rape in the same context as "you should be able to support yourself", however I understand why you hyperbolized to further your points; it's definitely not the same principle. Scruff or AJ, have either of you ever needed to depend on welfare, or directly been involved in any healthcare matter? These are my own views, and I believe each person across the United States should be able (or attempt to from the best of their abilities) to be able to support themselves financially and provide a stable foundation on which to support their lives. I understand in certain scenarios it's appropriate to seek help, and that's where the government comes in. However, if you're ill, poor, elderly, or out-of-work, is that the government's problem, or your own? With the exception of most illnesses, finances, age, and employment are all dependent on oneself. Again, I understand the need to seek help, and I agree the government should have systems in place to provide help, however it shouldn't be the government's sole responsibility to aide the person; the person needs to be able to support themselves more than the government supports them. So, then, is there a difference between wild animals and the elderly, poor, sick, or out-of-work (also known as welfare dependents)? Look at animals in the zoo, they're 99.9% dependent on their providers, if they were released into the wild based on their lives in captivity - left off all support - they wouldn't be able to survive and thrive effectively. Unfortunately, the majority of welfare users are the animals in the zoo. (End Zoo metaphor). I'm not saying the course of action is to cut people on welfare off, however they're not doing anything to encourage welfare users to get back on their feet. It's known that the majority of welfare users simply take advantage of the government's help, and that's what I have a problem with. I've witnessed it firsthand, been around it, and, at one point, my family belonged to the welfare program. The difference is my parent's attempted (and succeeded exponentially) to rid themselves or being dependent on the government's help, which is how the program is intended to be. Welfare isn't intended to provide support long-term, it's a intended as a short-term program to help people get on their feet. The problem is, people become satisfied and dependent that they have a steadily income with virtually no work, and that's when problems arise with the welfare program. I've been in that position. There's a classic example of welfare-abusers to the extent that a woman keeps having children to get more aide, and while it seems a little more extreme, it happens quite often. The welfare program does more harm than good. However, my example wasn't intended to be taken so ridiculously seriously. Naturally doctors and medical needs are obviously exempt, my example was aimed at the majority bad seeds that manipulate and abuse the healthcare and welfare system. Which, unfortunately, means they do more harm than good. Are their good side-effects? Absolutely! My family is an example of that, as was your classic cancer patient example. There's numerous examples of healthcare and welfare being a wonderful system brought forth by the government - and notice the good examples are when they're being used as they were intended. But in the society we live in today, people don't care about using it as it were intended; it's a case of manipulation a system to where it might be good for one individual, however it's terrible for the group. Edited by Enfinit, Jul 1 2012, 10:29 PM.
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| ASLANS R0AR | Jul 1 2012, 11:04 PM Post #31 |
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Spartan Pops
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I think we can all agree that THIS REALLY SUCKS. Sorry you had to go through all that. |
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| mr per0 | Jul 2 2012, 03:30 AM Post #32 |
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The Didact
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Agreed, to a point.
Yes, and no. Having worked in child support for the Attorney General's office, I can say from experience that a large number of out of work and needy are only out of work and needy because they choose to be. They are given enough handouts to become ghetto superstars and become fine with that. cycle, rinse, repeat. That is not to say that all people are like that, because they aren't. But there are enough of them out there to abuse the system, thus taking away from those that genuinely are in need with no way out, and drives the prices up for the rest of us. Because of that, I think that any meaningful reform must address entitlement and hypochondriacs in order to really work.
I don't see just going to the doctor as being dependent, becuse sometimes it just needs to be done. However, there are a number of folks that go for anything and everything instead of only when they need to. If they just have a $30 co-pay or whatever, they go, simply because they can. This makes insurance pay more, which raises rates for everyone. It takes up providers time, which creates backlogs and raises rates (supply and demand), which makes insurance companies raise rates more to cover increased prices. cycle, rinse, repeat. That is where I see it becoming dependent. I also think there is a fundamental difference between saying "dude, it's a cold, sack up, take some tylenol and nyquil and quit your bitching" and saying "I'm sorry Ms. Genovese, I've got things to do." |
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| mr per0 | Jul 2 2012, 03:39 AM Post #33 |
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The Didact
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sorry for the double post, I started to post before I left to go see my in-laws, and forgot to check for relevant posts before I finished it. For the most part.... I was saying what E said, only less eloquently. I have seen the cases of kids for money. I have seen the cases of kids with rags for clothes or no immunizations because "baby momma" wants a $300 purse or an iphone. Sadly, these cases aren't uncommon. And it is these societal attitudes that need to be addressed before any meaningful change can take place, imho. |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Jul 2 2012, 02:55 PM Post #34 |
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Spartan Pops
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I have seen these things too; I know of a family who chose to put their money into game consoles and bling instead of rent and utilities, so they lost power during one of our harsh winters. Can't figure out that reasoning . . . |
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| Scruff 815 | Jul 2 2012, 05:29 PM Post #35 |
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The Arbiter
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Healthcare isn't so much of an issue here (free healthcare etc), but yes, I've had to depend on welfare. I was out of work for six months, during which time I claimed Jobseekers Allowance (a measly £67.50 a week). I ended up getting a job and no longer claim any benefits. GO ME! Of course, when I was there every two weeks for my interviews, I saw the people there who were clearly doing as little as possible so they could continue to live off taxpayers money. It's an inherent flaw with any system - a small minority of people will ALWAYS do what they can do get stuff for free and think that it's OK to do so. Hello, internet piracy. As for the hypochondriacs of the world, there's a few things to blame for that. The internet has turned everyone into self-diagnosers. Hospitals proudly advertise their full-body scans so you can make SURE that you're not going to die of a sudden brain tumour. And, something I noticed every time I've been to the States, on your TV shows almost every third commercial is for a drug telling you that it'll stop you feeling tired all the time / stop random aches and pains / etc. Basically, the drug companies WANT you to become a hypochondriac because they get paid more. But in both of those situations, it's the system that's at fault. People shouldn't be able to abuse loopholes, and when they do, those loopholes should be closed immediately. It's not fair on the people who use these systems fairly to stop them because one or two people took the piss. I wouldn't have been able to afford to live if it weren't for the six months JSA I claimed - even though I pay for that in taxes, and pay for the spongers who just want to have kids and do drugs, I'm still glad it's there. It's a similar principle on healthcare. I think a lot of this might be what we're used to. You guys are used to paying a stupid amount of money on healthcare; we're not. For me, a three-month waiting list and no charge seems right. For you, being seen straight-away and paying $12,000 a year seems right. Ah, cultural differences
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| Enfinit | Jul 2 2012, 11:08 PM Post #36 |
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Excellent post, Scruff. Very well said. |
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| mr per0 | Jul 3 2012, 04:39 AM Post #37 |
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The Didact
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agreed. well said Scruff |
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| ASLANS R0AR | Jul 3 2012, 03:42 PM Post #38 |
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Spartan Pops
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| Deadpool Psycko | Jul 3 2012, 03:57 PM Post #39 |
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The Meta
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Hmmmmmmmmmm......*reads* Mmmhmmm mmhmmm...*continues reading*.....HMM!?!?!..*reads more*....Mmhmmhmmm![]() No Sir, I don't like it. Edited by Deadpool Psycko, Jul 3 2012, 04:00 PM.
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| SgtMaj AJJ | Jul 6 2012, 02:46 AM Post #40 |
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With Magic Mike following 50 Shades, the US population will increase by 50% sometime next spring. We're going to need that healthcare reform. |
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1:25 AM Jul 11
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You are all welcome, no matter how you found us so feel free to look around a bit. We'd love it if you stayed a while though so go on and register, you know you want to...Simply use your GamerTag as your login then wander on over to Introductions, say hello, and join in the fun!


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It's one of the reasons healthcare is so damn expensive to begin with nowadays.)

). So I went to the emergency room (instead of waiting until Monday to see my Family Care Physician). Well all hell broke loose - and I still don't understand why it is so complicated.



1:25 AM Jul 11