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The Dark Knight Rises Shooting
Topic Started: Jul 20 2012, 07:01 PM (430 Views)
SensoryFour34
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Shooting at The Dark Knight Rises premire in Colorado.

I don't know what would cause someone to do this, but it's just sick!
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crazybydefault
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I heard about this once I got back from watching it at the midnight premier here. What would provoke someone into doing something like this? And where did he get access to such high-powered weaponry?
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SensoryFour34
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I have no idea, but I can guarantee he isn't remotely sane. It's just sad that things like this have to happen. Some people are just evil. :(
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PINK MIST PER0
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crazybydefault
Jul 20 2012, 10:18 PM
I heard about this once I got back from watching it at the midnight premier here. What would provoke someone into doing something like this? And where did he get access to such high-powered weaponry?

Josh told me about this earlier this morning when no one really knew who the gunman was or anything.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to get a gun... legally or illegally in the US. But I want to say it right now... it was not the gun that killed the people. It was the psycho behind the gun. Living in the country you learn some serious gun safety.

I don't know how anyone could do something like this. It's awful.

I can't believe he dressed up as the Joker... I honestly get a little freaked out at Heath Ledger's acting in the last movie. He did a damn good job. I can't imagine how scared those people int he theater were having a joker impersonator shooting at them.

I'm glad to say I've never had a gun pointed at me like that. I can't say the same for my little brother. He was working at a restaurant his senior year in high school and was about to close the store up when a guy broke in and held a gun to his head...

There are some horrible people in the world. My heart goes out to the families who were just wanting to see a movie and have some fun, but instead will live with this the rest of their lives. Especially the family of the 6 year old girl who was killed.
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ASLANS R0AR
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this stuff is so sad . . .
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ASLANS R0AR
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I appreciated the president's short speech last night from the Aurora Hospital; seemed more real and honest than the typical polished presentation (there was a housefly that kept buzzing his face - can't Secret Service shoot down that fly???)

Hopefully he's right - what will be remembered will not be a freak in orange hair shooting people, but the people who sacrificed themselves to save others. Like This. Truly amazing.
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SensoryFour34
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People like this just make me sick. If there's anything that's been proven from this, it's that people do care!
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SgtMaj AJJ
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It's challenging to visit Waypoint for more than a handful of threads.

On a somewhat lighter note- Bale visiting the hospital was a nice gesture.

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ASLANS R0AR
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SgtMaj AJJ
Jul 25 2012, 01:50 AM
On a somewhat lighter note- Bale visiting the hospital was a nice gesture.

I was thinking the same thing. I have a lot more respect for "celebrities" who go out of their way to mingle with real people and speak to our common humanity (at least in some sense).
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ASLANS R0AR
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Hearing more stories last night on the news, made me remember how in times of great tragedy and evil (yes, there is categorical, objective evil) there are heroes who shine against the dark backdrop by laying down their lives to protect others. Reminds me of our soldiers in recent conflicts in Iraq & Afghanistan. Always brings me to tears.
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ASLANS R0AR
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Sad to hear that gun purchases in Colorado have spiked since the shooting. The ease at which people in Colorado can buy firearms is pretty alarming to me. A reporter went into the same store where Holmes purchased his assault rifle and had one himself within two hours. Coincidence that Colorado seems to have the most "mass shootings"?? I think not.

Not trying to put forth a position on gun control here, but from my time in Canada it's pretty clear that their system is better. Pretty much only the police had guns; gun violence was almost non-existent. Of course, their population is so much less than ours too, so I'm sure that's a factor too. I don't think the answer is to have more armed people, since the problem is with the people.
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The Gengo
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Aslan, I understand what you are saying - but contrast Canada with Switzerland - nearly everyone has a gun, and it has a history of very low gun crime.

I think a large part of the discussion, at least in this country, needs to center around attitude.

We seem to have a romantic attachment with guns and violence with guns. How many "join the Canadian Army" commercials did you see during your time there? Just curious as I've never spent any time in Canada.

Other nation's that have compulsory service (and usually not a large standing army) often have a more mature outlook on the role of firearms.

Also, people in this country like to think the Second Amendment was included so they could hunt, or protect themselves and their families - this is a natural byproduct of the Second Amendment, but not its original intent. The sole purpose for the Framers wanting an armed population (or militia) was so that the people could overthrow a tyrannical government.
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ASLANS R0AR
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The Gengo
Jul 25 2012, 04:16 PM
Aslan, I understand what you are saying - but contrast Canada with Switzerland - nearly everyone has a gun, and it has a history of very low gun crime.

I think a large part of the discussion, at least in this country, needs to center around attitude.

We seem to have a romantic attachment with guns and violence with guns. How many "join the Canadian Army" commercials did you see during your time there? Just curious as I've never spent any time in Canada.

Other nation's that have compulsory service (and usually not a large standing army) often have a more mature outlook on the role of firearms.

Also, people in this country like to think the Second Amendment was included so they could hunt, or protect themselves and their families - this is a natural byproduct of the Second Amendment, but not its original intent. The sole purpose for the Framers wanting an armed population (or militia) was so that the people could overthrow a tyrannical government.
Gengo, I know nothing about Switzerland, so I'll have to take your word on it.

There is definitely more of a push toward serving in the armed forces in the USA than in Canada (from my experience). A fascinating book for me to read was Pierre Burton (Canadian historian) called "Why We Act Like Canadians." It really helped me understand how the USA & Canada developed differently and how different values were formed in each country, including our view of firearms.

I wonder how the framers of the constitution would view the "right to bear arms" in light of automatic weapons and such (guess it's the courts job to interpret this).

I wonder what "attitude" is driving many in Colorado to be more "armed" than they were? Self-protection would be top on the list, I'm sure, but it seems like a 50/50 chance that the weapons we have to protect ourselves are used against us (interested in any statistics on this).
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The Gengo
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For me, it isn't just "the push" toward serving, it's commercials that make it seem like a video game. I served for 5 years, much of that as a medic - but I joined because I did so with a group of friends from high school. I never thought it would be like a video game.

Obviously this is speculation, and for the courts to decide ultimately, but I feel the Framers would absolutely still want us to have access to automatic weapons for one reason - the government wields a large standing army. Any weapon they can use against us, the people should possess to defend against such use. Yes, this (again, in my opinion) means tanks, stealth jets, etc. However, I do think they placed much more emphasis on militias (not White Supremacist militias, more like what the National Guard was supposed to be) keeping this in the hands of the well trained and well behaved. Again, if you have time and inclination, look into Switzerland's military system. Also note, they don't need a large standing army because they largely mind their own business.

Again, the romantic attachment to guns is something ingrained in our vigilante mindset. "If that happens when I'm in the theater, I'll just shoot them first!"

<sarcasm>Yeah, through the smoke, tear gas, and mayhem of people running for their lives, you'll definitely only hit the perpetrator.</sarcasm>
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mr per0
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Just to add my two cents...
I don't think more gun control is the answer. The vast majority of people who use weapons illegally obtain them illegally. So to restrict my ability to get them would do nothing to deter gun crime. IMO, the answer lies in stricter punishments (add a mandatory 20 yr if a gun was involved or just go ahead and fry em') and in changing societal attitudes, which is hard. As long as TV, movies, games, and music continue to perpetuate guns as cool and awesome, and don't portray real consequences so they can wrap up the storyline in a set time, things will continue on the path they are on.

As far as the Framers intent, there is still debate on that. Yes, they did introduce a preparatory clause refering to a militia, but the operative clause refers to "the people" which means "everybody" anywhere else it is found in the Constitution. Rough drafts of the amendment referred to the individual right apart from militia service. Since then, the appointed interpreters of the Constitution, the Supreme Court, have upheld this as the valid interpretation. Most notably in "Heller v. DC" in 2008 and to a lesser extent "McDonald v Chicago" in 2010. I would, though, like to discuss machine guns with GW or Thomas Jefferson.

On a lighter? note:
the example of getting a gun in CO in 2 hours seems like they just went to an incompetent dealer. I have never waited more than 15 minutes from the time I said, check me out to the time I was leaving weapon in hand.

Texas seems to have few mass shootings. Why? We shoot back. The most famous was Charles Whitman, who barricaded himself in the UT tower and went on a spree, but was brought down by law enforcement AND civilians. Another example being the sep 28, 2010 active shooter on the UT campus. That one ended with only 1 dead (the shooter).
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ASLANS R0AR
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mr per0
Jul 25 2012, 05:30 PM
Texas seems to have few mass shootings. Why? We shoot back.
haha - you guys should have this as your state motto: "Texas: We shoot back."
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Scruff 815
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STATISTICS:

Number of Murders, United States, 2009: 15,241
Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2009: 9,146

Number of Murders, Britain, 2008*: 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)
Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms, Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)

*The Home office reported murder statistics in the UK for the 12 months to March 2009, but these are 12-month figures).

Sauce: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html

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Some countries have plenty of guns and low murder rates. And yes, it is the person with the gun who does the killing rather than the gun itself. And I have a penis but it doesn't mean there should be penis control to stop me from going around raping errybody.

But let's face it, guns are stupid. There is no need for them other than to kill things. And having the ability to easily get a gun makes it a whole load easier for crazy people to shoot people.

But then, I live in a country where we're not used to guns. The very idea of them is alien to me.
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ASLANS R0AR
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Scruff 815
Jul 25 2012, 07:32 PM
But then, I live in a country where we're not used to guns. The very idea of them is alien to me.
this is what it felt like to me in Canada. And thanks for looking up those stats.

Here in the US guns have become so entwined with our identity that I can only hope that stricter regulations and longer waiting periods will one day be enacted. It is hard for me to imagine any case, whatsoever, where someone would need to receive a gun on the same day they apply for it. Maybe if I grew up in the South I'd think differently; also my time in Canada has obviously impacted me a great deal.
Edited by ASLANS R0AR, Jul 25 2012, 08:03 PM.
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Scruff 815
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As an outsider, it seems to me that one of the biggest problems is that it's hard for Americans to think about increasing gun control when everyone already has them. The argument of "I need a gun to protect myself from the crazy people with guns" does actually stand when everyone already has guns.

Unless the government went around confiscating every single gun in the US, there is no way that stricter gun control could be implemented except for new ownership. And even then, the new people are going to want guns to protect themselves from the insane old people shooting up retirement homes.

I dunno. I offer no solutions.
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ASLANS R0AR
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yeah, it's crazy complex. All I feel qualified to do is make decisions for me & my family. Being exposed to alternatives though, it is tempting to try and emulate them when it seems so much more peaceful in comparison.
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