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HISTORY IN THE MAKING 2008-2016

Good luck!

We've spent a good many years discussing politics, life, society and history. Most of all, the makers of history. The great events that changed the world - people, places, actions. Small acts have changed its hard-worn course, and effort and circumstance can make of its small actors immortal greats. In line with that sentiment, it seems pertinent now to recognize the potential of those who've made up this community for years, obvious through their contributions to the spirited debate and discussion that has proceeded here. HITM has sadly gone silent, though perhaps not lacking for things to say about making history, but rather for the realization that it is time we all commenced to do so, and make our mark.

Good luck to you all, see you in the history books!
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What If...
Topic Started: Dec 29 2008, 12:59 PM (1,042 Views)
MaxJ
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HITM op dokters advies
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Indeed, it's really the What-If question.

But I agree with Rommel, the Allies didn't had any chance against the Axis without England.
Geschiedenis-Histoire-Geskiedenis-History-Geschichte-Historia

Parasky
 
IF YOU AIN'T DUTCH YOU AIN'T MUCH
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

An English surrender would have meant certain defeat for the allies. Without the English's pioneering anti-submarine tactics, its model system of air command, and its large navy, Overlord would have been impossible to launch. Doenitz would have sunk the allied ships wholesale, as the UBoat arm would be the strongest in the German navy (Doenitz believed that wars could be won with submarines, and he almost succeeded). Remember how badly American ships were mauled during operation Paukenshlag, partially because of being unprepared, but moreover, they had no clue how to properly combat submarines. Now, put the lives of millions of allied soldiers in those boats on the line, and you can see, it would have been a deathblow to manpower, and this likely would have allowed te Japanese to completely dominate Asia.

Bohr was evacuated to England by danish resistants, to prevent his atomic research from falling into enemy hands. With nowhere to flee, if England was out of the picture, the Nazis would have gotten what they needed.

Also, the English, along with bitter experience, taught the Russians a lot about fighting the Germans, and the Russians ended up putting this to good use. With the huge amount of planes freed up in the Luftwaffe by an English surrender, Stalin would likely have lost most of his productive capacity, and he would not have the massive numbers of tanks that whisked him to germany after thier failure at Kursk.

Also, English innovation led to invaluable contributions to the war effort. Without the capture of the enigma machine, intact, Losses in ships would have been 4 or five times what they were by the end of the war.

Overall, Britian tied up so many resources, that Germany had no hope of victory. If this had not been the case.....

To illustrate my point, when Russia withdrew from the first world war following the Bolshevik revolution, Germany could throw almost all of its manpower into a one front war, which if not for the massive size of the english empire and the vast amount of troops that could be pulled from the colonies, Germany very likely could have fended off the french forces indefinitely, especially if it was solely the french.

If England was removed, Germany could have thrown the vast majority of its military might against the USSR, and you forget, that if the English surrendered, Rommel wouldn't be in africa long, since there would be nobody to fight him, and quite a few african countries were highly supportive of the germans, and others were just plain indifferent. The forces in Africa could then be mobilized against the Balkans or the Soviets.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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TheNewRommel1
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Finally, Another Logical Argument instead of random statements and blind estimates.
The heart should only exist to pump blood to the brain and rest of the body anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Love and Hate are only impediments to the human condition.

Imagine what could be accomplished if only the human race could shed our humanity.

When the facts change, my mind changes. What do you do, sir?

AWESOME HITCH (CLICKY)
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TheNewRommel1
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Posted Image

Here is a map I made, because I was bored.

The Red Arrows represent the Nazi's while the Green represents the Turks. The Mid-East Red Arrow is basically Rommel as he would have swept through North Africa and most likely taken camp in Iraq. (A Nazi loyal State) A Combined Nazi-Turk force would strike from the Balkans and take the Russian oilfields. (Basically, What Hitler tried after being bogged down in Russia for awhile just from a different angle.)
The heart should only exist to pump blood to the brain and rest of the body anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Love and Hate are only impediments to the human condition.

Imagine what could be accomplished if only the human race could shed our humanity.

When the facts change, my mind changes. What do you do, sir?

AWESOME HITCH (CLICKY)
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

TheNewRommel1
Dec 31 2008, 12:30 AM
Finally, Another Logical Argument instead of random statements and blind estimates.

Look, I came here, hoping not to have this brought up. If you wanna be like that, can you at least do it on the age forums? Also, I would refer you to the latest post in the "Canadian Military History" Thread on agecomm.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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TheNewRommel1
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I don't follow.
The heart should only exist to pump blood to the brain and rest of the body anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Love and Hate are only impediments to the human condition.

Imagine what could be accomplished if only the human race could shed our humanity.

When the facts change, my mind changes. What do you do, sir?

AWESOME HITCH (CLICKY)
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

TheNewRommel1
Dec 31 2008, 12:58 AM
I don't follow.

This is gonna sound bad, but if you do use the age forums, which user are you?
Then I'll know what you mean by that.....

Or do you just continually get bullshitted by illogical arguements without factual support like I do?
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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TheNewRommel1
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Administrator

I am TheNewRommel on the AOEF.
The heart should only exist to pump blood to the brain and rest of the body anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Love and Hate are only impediments to the human condition.

Imagine what could be accomplished if only the human race could shed our humanity.

When the facts change, my mind changes. What do you do, sir?

AWESOME HITCH (CLICKY)
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

TheNewRommel1
Dec 31 2008, 12:59 AM
I am TheNewRommel on the AOEF.

Doesn't ring a bell..... oh well, you didn't get what I meant, so you must just be referring to something going on in these forums. If that's the case, please disregard the comments above.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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TheNewRommel1
Member Avatar
Administrator

Ya, I was on when the AOE forums were good back in '06 when we could talk about whatever. Then I left and when I came back it all disappeared.
The heart should only exist to pump blood to the brain and rest of the body anything else is a waste of time and energy.

Love and Hate are only impediments to the human condition.

Imagine what could be accomplished if only the human race could shed our humanity.

When the facts change, my mind changes. What do you do, sir?

AWESOME HITCH (CLICKY)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ww2nerd
Member Avatar
Scion of the Midnight Sun

TheNewRommel1
Dec 31 2008, 01:02 AM
Ya, I was on when the AOE forums were good back in '06 when we could talk about whatever. Then I left and when I came back it all disappeared.

Don't blame you..... the mods there are worse than the friggin gestapo....
Albeit, they've let my bantering in the Canadian history thread go on (VERY POLITICAL, and HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL). To anybody on age who knows what I'm talking about, please leave it on the agecomm forums. I don't need that bs here.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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Fellow
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The Prophet

good points guys. I think I can now agree with you in the fact that the english where really a necessity for the allies in ww2.

Now onto a new quesiton.

what if Russia decided not to join the allies and if Germany did not invade Russia so they both stayed allies to eachother.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Perhaps something a lil more creative? You could use almost the same reasoning if russia stayed allied with germany, except for a massive bonus to manpower.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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Fellow
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The Prophet

:( fine than you think of something *cries*
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Fellow
Dec 31 2008, 02:36 AM
:( fine than you think of something *cries*

Sorry, but it is almost the same logic.
What if trotsky had come to power instead of stalin?
FYI (I'll probably be including lots of these in my posts) Trotsky adopted the name as an alias. He picked it from his jailer.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
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