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HISTORY IN THE MAKING 2008-2016

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We've spent a good many years discussing politics, life, society and history. Most of all, the makers of history. The great events that changed the world - people, places, actions. Small acts have changed its hard-worn course, and effort and circumstance can make of its small actors immortal greats. In line with that sentiment, it seems pertinent now to recognize the potential of those who've made up this community for years, obvious through their contributions to the spirited debate and discussion that has proceeded here. HITM has sadly gone silent, though perhaps not lacking for things to say about making history, but rather for the realization that it is time we all commenced to do so, and make our mark.

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Catholic Cannibals?
Yes 0 (0%)
No 5 (100%)
Total Votes: 5
Catholic Cannibals?
Topic Started: Jan 15 2010, 03:43 AM (211 Views)
Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

I was bored. Anyhow, in my understanding of Catholicism, they genuinely (church doctrine anyhow) believe that the bread taken during communion is Christ's flesh.....


I think you can figure the rest out.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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UnknownCow
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Existentialist Ninja
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I'll respond to this tommorow afternoon. ;)
"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." -G. K. Chesterton
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DragonLegend
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I think it's sad that I don't even know whether you're serious or not.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

DragonLegend
Jan 15 2010, 03:44 AM
I think it's sad that I don't even know whether you're serious or not.

From what I've heard in my social class, genuine, papal doctrine states that it actually becomes the "flesh" of christ.

I'm serious about that part.
The cannibal thing is simply because I'm bored.

Quote:
 
used in the Eucharistic rite are, in Catholic faith, transformed in all but appearance into the Body and Blood of Christ, a change that is called transubstantiation.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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Umm... yeah, I think I'll let Cow handle this. But I'd say it's a symbolic thing; I don't see why God or anyone would want people to literally eat Christ.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

The red deerians would.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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UnknownCow
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Existentialist Ninja
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Let's lay out of few things to begin. You are correct WW2 in that the Catholic Church, differing from Protestant sects, believes in a real bodily change something called transubstantiation, that Christ in a physical sense become the bread and the wine. This is different than consubstantiation, which some Protestants like Lutherans and Anglicans believe in, which is the pressence of Jesus in the elements, but not neccesarily a physical change. Other Protestants like Baptists or Non-Denominational groups don't believe in that either, and see it as only a symbol, without a sacremental pressence in the bread and the wine only in the hearts of the believer.

I would be part of the first camp. Frankly transubstantiation has been shown to my eyes to be the oldest and truest to the beliefs of the early Christian's. Differences between the different beliefs are largely theological, and thus arguing for one or the other will only have meaning to the Christian, so rather than explain why I find the Catholic eucharist most valid, I'll move on.

Also, before I go any further: Communion = Mass = Eucharist, and Bread + Wine = Elements.

To understand Catholic Mass you need to know the concept of the sacrement. A sacrement is an outward sign that conveys spiritual grace through Christ, a "visible sign of an invisible reality" to quote Augustine of Hippo. A sacrement is ex opere operato, i.e. effective on account of the work itself, and not on the belief of the minister and in some cases not even the reciever. Again here I'll skip the biblical basis of the sacrement, but just focus on making it understandable.

A sacrement is an action that blesses a person with a spiritual gift, ex. matrimony, communion, baptism. The first binds woman and man into one, the second makes us whole human beings ad allows us to experience Christ in flesh, the third brings us into the Christian body. As said above these are ex opere operato, and they are not mere symbol which relies upon men to give meaning in their own mind, but something real.

Now that a sacrement is rudimentialy defined things may begin to make sense. Christ is of course ultimately a spiritual being as part of the trinity and son of God. When we talk about transubstantiation, Christ's flesh and blood truly becoming incorporated into the bread and wine, it can only be understood in the fact that Christ is not constrained to be human, (though he certainly is both man as well as God) and his flesh needs not be human flesh, which it certainly isn't, considering it's no secret that Communion wine will not taste of blood nor the wafers like flesh. Nonetheless given the nature of the sacrement and Christ's nature the elements can truly be Christ's body, however cannabalism is confined to the literal naturalistic flesh of another human being. Thus Catholic Mass is not cannabalism.

Thanks for reading this monster post. It's defenitely a lengthy topic, and this more than anything is a summation. :)

"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." -G. K. Chesterton
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Thanks, It was just a small joke anyhow. I'm not serious that they're cannibals. Well, the Red Deerians are, but that's regardless of religion.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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UnknownCow
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Existentialist Ninja
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I know you weren't, but it's good to be informed, and it's hard topic to dive into in person so I was happy to be helpful in this format. ;))
"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." -G. K. Chesterton
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Lazurath
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From a Land Down Under
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Lol, Cow, did you study Theology or something?
Sefless protector
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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UnknownCow
Jan 15 2010, 08:47 PM
Let's lay out of few things to begin. You are correct WW2 in that the Catholic Church, differing from Protestant sects, believes in a real bodily change something called transubstantiation, that Christ in a physical sense become the bread and the wine. This is different than consubstantiation, which some Protestants like Lutherans and Anglicans believe in, which is the pressence of Jesus in the elements, but not neccesarily a physical change. Other Protestants like Baptists or Non-Denominational groups don't believe in that either, and see it as only a symbol, without a sacremental pressence in the bread and the wine only in the hearts of the believer.

I would be part of the first camp. Frankly transubstantiation has been shown to my eyes to be the oldest and truest to the beliefs of the early Christian's. Differences between the different beliefs are largely theological, and thus arguing for one or the other will only have meaning to the Christian, so rather than explain why I find the Catholic eucharist most valid, I'll move on.

Also, before I go any further: Communion = Mass = Eucharist, and Bread + Wine = Elements.

To understand Catholic Mass you need to know the concept of the sacrement. A sacrement is an outward sign that conveys spiritual grace through Christ, a "visible sign of an invisible reality" to quote Augustine of Hippo. A sacrement is ex opere operato, i.e. effective on account of the work itself, and not on the belief of the minister and in some cases not even the reciever. Again here I'll skip the biblical basis of the sacrement, but just focus on making it understandable.

A sacrement is an action that blesses a person with a spiritual gift, ex. matrimony, communion, baptism. The first binds woman and man into one, the second makes us whole human beings ad allows us to experience Christ in flesh, the third brings us into the Christian body. As said above these are ex opere operato, and they are not mere symbol which relies upon men to give meaning in their own mind, but something real.

Now that a sacrement is rudimentialy defined things may begin to make sense. Christ is of course ultimately a spiritual being as part of the trinity and son of God. When we talk about transubstantiation, Christ's flesh and blood truly becoming incorporated into the bread and wine, it can only be understood in the fact that Christ is not constrained to be human, (though he certainly is both man as well as God) and his flesh needs not be human flesh, which it certainly isn't, considering it's no secret that Communion wine will not taste of blood nor the wafers like flesh. Nonetheless given the nature of the sacrement and Christ's nature the elements can truly be Christ's body, however cannabalism is confined to the literal naturalistic flesh of another human being. Thus Catholic Mass is not cannabalism.

Thanks for reading this monster post. It's defenitely a lengthy topic, and this more than anything is a summation. :)

Posted Image
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UnknownCow
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Existentialist Ninja
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Hahahaha that GIF just made my day Dragon, thank you. :D

@Laz, only in my free time, I am a fanatic afterall. :P

"Because a girl should have long hair, she should have clean hair; because she should have clean hair, she should not have an unclean home; because she should not have an unclean home, she should have a free and leisured mother; because she should have a free mother, she should not have an usurious landlord; because there should not be a usurious landlord, there should be a redistribution of property; because there should be a redistribution of property, there shall be a revolution." -G. K. Chesterton
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