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HISTORY IN THE MAKING 2008-2016

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Surprising statement from an ex US general
Topic Started: Mar 19 2010, 05:10 PM (260 Views)
MaxJ
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Wereldomroep

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Retired US Marine General John Sheehan got one thing right in his testimony to the US Congress: gays serve in the Dutch military. But it takes a foreigner to point that out. Here in The Netherlands, gays have served in the military for decades.

General Sheehan blamed the fall of the UN enclave in Srebrenica in 1995, which led to the massacre of thousands of Bosnian Muslims, partly on the fact that homosexuals served in the Dutch military.

"That was the largest massacre in Europe since World War Two. The Dutch army allowed homosexuals and you know what happened there."

The retired general made these comments during a hearing considering whether to lift the US 'don't ask, don't tell' policy that allows homosexuals to serve in the military only if they keep quiet about it.

What?
The reaction here in The Netherlands has been a universal, 'huh?' From the current Foreign Minister to the Defence Minister at the time of the Srebrenica massacre; from leaders of unions representing soldiers to the former army commander; all have said that General Sheehan's remarks do not have the slightest basis in reality.

The Dutch caretaker Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen said via Twitter that he was amazed at the ex general's comments - saying they reflected more about the discussion around homosexuals in the US army than anything else.

Minister of Defense Eimert van Middelkoop twittered: "scandalous and unbefitting a soldier". And the Dutch ambassador to the US, Renee Jones-Bos, added in a statement on the embassy's website that she "couldn't disagree more'' with Sheehan's claims.

"I take pride in the fact that lesbians and gays have served openly and with distinction in the Dutch military forces for decades, such as in Afghanistan at the moment',' she said.

Sensitive issue
The fall of the enclave is a sensitive issue here. It has been thoroughly studied, by the military as well as by civilian commissions. One such study brought about the fall of then Prime Minister Wim Kok's government.

The fact that such a massacre could take place in an area under the responsibility of Dutch soldiers has had lasting effects on Dutch military and civilian policy, and will always remain a open wound in the Dutch national psyche.

Yet among all the introspection and adjustments made in the wake of Srebrenica, the issue of homosexuality never came up.

Only today, after General Sheehan's statement, there was some speculation that he might have exaggerated an off-the-cuff remark by a Dutch commander, perhaps using the term 'gay' as a derogatory reference to the military's failure to protect Muslims in Srebrenica.

General Sheehan referred to this commander, possibly General Henk van den Breemen, as his source that gays in the Dutch military partly caused the fall of Srebrenica. In a written statement, retired General Van den Breemen says that is nonsense.

Gay army
Gays have been allowed to serve in the Dutch army since 1974. Before that, there were gays in the military under a version of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy.

Today, about seven to ten percent of the soldiers serving in the Dutch military are homosexual (no specific data available).


How can a guy like this become a general? :omg:
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Parasky
 
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Nghtflame7
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Max,

First, he is a retired General. Second, he is OLD! I know JJ Sheehan. He is a retired Marine General, and he was a VERY good military thinker. Being a good General, though, doesn't mean that he isn't a backwards out of touch iconoclastic civilian.

Pause...writing to Max and using the word iconoclastic...let me define the term. Iconoclast is one who attacks settled beliefs, in this case the settled belief of the Dutch that homosexuals in the military are perfectly fine.

In other words, he got to be a Generalbecause he was a superior thinker and leader in a time when most military folks thought exactly the way he does. Times change, the character of the US military has changed, yet JJ is speaking with a mindset that is several decades old. I personally couldn't care less if people in the military are gay so long as they do their job well and have my back when the bullets fly. I suspect the majority of US military people believe the same. Except many of the old guys. I don't know why, but the USMC leadership seems to be far more strongly opposed to gays inthe military than the other branches of the service. Must be a cultural mindset.
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DragonLegend
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Or maybe they don't want to know the people they shower and sleep with are attracted to them, which is one of the main reasons military men and women don't sleep and shower with each other. :hmm:

After all, it's not "Don't Tell", it's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Edited by DragonLegend, Mar 22 2010, 03:39 PM.
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Nghtflame7
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DragonLegend
Mar 22 2010, 03:31 PM
Or maybe they don't want to know the people they shower and sleep with are attracted to them, which is one of the main reasons military men and women don't sleep and shower with each other. :hmm:
You are right. That would be a bit odd. I have had gay friends outside the military, but it would be a bit strange to be in a shower with them like at the gym, even though I know they aren't attracted to me, nor would I be to them. Sleeping arrangements are less of an issue. In the field, men and women of all ranks would just crash wherever they could. Never any issue there. Permanent quarters would be a different story. Share a room with a guy who brought homw other guys? Ewww. :X

Of course, someone who was bringing home members of the opposite sex could make things uncomfortable, too. I guess I could share a barracks with a gay man, but there would have to be some ground rules between us, just out of mutual respect.
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DragonLegend
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This seems to be the main reason opponents of repealing DADT oppose it, but if the military is okay with it, I'm okay with it. Mullen and the others of course support their President on this, but the troops don't, and 10 percent say they’ll refuse to re-enlist if it’s withdrawn.

The commandant of the Marine Corps opposes ending DADT, too.
Edited by DragonLegend, Mar 22 2010, 04:01 PM.
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MaxJ
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Nghtflame7
Mar 22 2010, 02:59 PM
First, he is a retired General. Second, he is OLD! I know JJ Sheehan. He is a retired Marine General, and he was a VERY good military thinker. Being a good General, though, doesn't mean that he isn't a backwards out of touch iconoclastic civilian.
But if you are a general you also need to have some good sense. I don't think saying something like this means you have a good sense. But like you said, he is old, I guess that explains a lot :sarc:
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Parasky
 
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Nghtflame7
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MaxJ
Mar 22 2010, 04:26 PM
Nghtflame7
Mar 22 2010, 02:59 PM
First, he is a retired General. Second, he is OLD! I know JJ Sheehan. He is a retired Marine General, and he was a VERY good military thinker. Being a good General, though, doesn't mean that he isn't a backwards out of touch iconoclastic civilian.
But if you are a general you also need to have some good sense. I don't think saying something like this means you have a good sense. But like you said, he is old, I guess that explains a lot :sarc:
Right. And he is NOT a General anymore. He is a private citizen. I would think he would have been more circumspect in his comments were he still on duty.
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MaxJ
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Yeah I know, look at the title, it says ex general :D
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Parasky
 
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