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HISTORY IN THE MAKING 2008-2016

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We've spent a good many years discussing politics, life, society and history. Most of all, the makers of history. The great events that changed the world - people, places, actions. Small acts have changed its hard-worn course, and effort and circumstance can make of its small actors immortal greats. In line with that sentiment, it seems pertinent now to recognize the potential of those who've made up this community for years, obvious through their contributions to the spirited debate and discussion that has proceeded here. HITM has sadly gone silent, though perhaps not lacking for things to say about making history, but rather for the realization that it is time we all commenced to do so, and make our mark.

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Terrorists strike Russian rail system, kill 37; More to come?
Topic Started: Mar 29 2010, 04:31 PM (859 Views)
Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Nightflame, while I don't want to be rude, that doesn't really matter. I may be unislamic to claim I'm killing in allah's name, but I'm still doing it for Islam.

These people may not be right calling themselves Christians, but the fact remains they're killing for that faith.

And Legend, I don't mean to be underhanded, but I believe we were talking about 09, were we not?

And legend, this is right from the preamble:
Quote:
 
Tallying attack data necessarily involves relying exclusively on frequently incomplete and ambiguous information—information for these statistics is not derived from federal government collection programs created or operated specifically to obtain attack data. The quality, accuracy, and volume of open source reporting can vary greatly from country to country.


I think you'll see there could be a small problem there.
Edited by Ww2nerd, Mar 30 2010, 09:12 PM.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
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Quote:
 
And Legend, I don't mean to be underhanded, but I believe we were talking about 09, were we not?


The 2008 report came out in April 2009, I think, so I guess we'll have to wait a month or two for the 2009 report.

Quote:
 
And legend, this is right from the preamble:
Quote:

Tallying attack data necessarily involves relying exclusively on frequently incomplete and ambiguous information—information for these statistics is not derived from federal government collection programs created or operated specifically to obtain attack data. The quality, accuracy, and volume of open source reporting can vary greatly from country to country.


I think you'll see there could be a small problem there.


Odds are, there were more Islamic attacks than mentioned in that report. Anyway, from the Report:

Quote:
 
Therefore, the statistical material in this report is drawn from the incidents of "terrorism" that occurred in 2008 as reported in open source media. This information is the most comprehensive body of information available to NCTC for compiling data to satisfy the above-referenced statistical requirements.


So if you don't believe anything it says, I suppose no source will be credible to you regarding this issue. But I think we all agree that more terrorist attacks were committed by Muslims than by Christians in the past few decades.
Edited by DragonLegend, Mar 30 2010, 09:40 PM.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

I don't really trust the US government to make an accurate representation of that, Legend. They are fighting the Islamic terrorists, after all.

Do you have anything a little more bipartisan? An international group perhaps (and no, that doesn't mean it has to be the UN or amnesty or whatever).

Oh well, I'll do some looking up on my own, see what I find.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
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This is the most comprehensive report I could find. I've asked 3 people I know, and they all linked me to this report. This one is also almost always used in discussions about terrorist attack statistics/counts.

I have no reason not to trust the intelligence community here. They don't really have anything to hide in this case.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Alright, I'll just take a look myself.
Sorry, I did that as sort of a reaction.

Though, you could afford to mention the evils of Christian terrorists a little more often.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
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But Christian terrorism is hardly as relevant, important or dangerous as Islamic terrorism.
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Lazurath
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From a Land Down Under
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Back to the topic, even though I don't exactly think Russia is a shining beacon of Human Rights and Law, I far more greatly hate the Chechen rebels and they're so-called "cause."

Ok, firstly, if you feel your way of life and government and being overwhelmed by a foreign occupier, etc. and you feel resentful, I guess that is understandable. However, to openly use terrorism and scare tactics, as well as basically f**k up your own country achieves little in gaining "independence" and only angers everyone else around you.

Also, the second Chechen War, which was trigged after they gained independence, was started because Chechenia invaded a neighbouring Republic (controlled by Russia, of course) in order to establish an Chechen emirate. So it's hardly like they were the "poor, suppressed victims" in this case.
Sefless protector
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DragonLegend
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Lazurath
Mar 31 2010, 01:36 AM
Back to the topic, even though I don't exactly think Russia is a shining beacon of Human Rights and Law, I far more greatly hate the Chechen rebels and they're so-called "cause."

Ok, firstly, if you feel your way of life and government and being overwhelmed by a foreign occupier, etc. and you feel resentful, I guess that is understandable. However, to openly use terrorism and scare tactics, as well as basically f**k up your own country achieves little in gaining "independence" and only angers everyone else around you.

Also, the second Chechen War, which was trigged after they gained independence, was started because Chechenia invaded a neighbouring Republic (controlled by Russia, of course) in order to establish an Chechen emirate. So it's hardly like they were the "poor, suppressed victims" in this case.
I would point out the hypocrisy by saying something about America and al-Qaeda, or Israel and terrorist groups, but I think I'll have mercy on you this time. :cheers:
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Legend, tell that to 20,000 innocent children who will never see their parents again.
Tell that to the numerous women who've had their hands cut off, their ears, their noses.
Tell that to all the orphans.

You might like to trivialize it. But it's no less dangerous than Islamic terrorism.
Edited by Ww2nerd, Mar 31 2010, 02:44 AM.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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Lazurath
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From a Land Down Under
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UPDATE: Another attack has been carried out, this time in the Northern Caucasus region. What a great shape Russia is currently in, eh? (Here's the link.)
Sefless protector
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DragonLegend
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Ww2nerd
Mar 31 2010, 02:40 AM
Legend, tell that to 20,000 innocent children who will never see their parents again.
Tell that to the numerous women who've had their hands cut off, their ears, their noses.
Tell that to all the orphans.

You might like to trivialize it. But it's no less dangerous than Islamic terrorism.
20,000?

Yes, it's bad, but please try to compare that to a global war with hundreds of thousands of murdered innocents.
Edited by DragonLegend, Mar 31 2010, 01:40 PM.
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Parasky
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There is no war in Crimea
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DragonLegend
Mar 31 2010, 12:48 AM
But Christian terrorism is hardly as relevant, important or dangerous as Islamic terrorism.
I wouldn't say that. Perhaps Islamic terrorism is more widespread, but terrorism is terrorism; there is no "worse" kind. It's all equally relevant, important, and dangerous, that's it's intended purpose.

As for these Russian bombings, well, I hope the terrorists enjoyed freedom while they could. They'll probably be shipped off to the gulag and never seen again*.

*They won't make it that far, they'll be dead before they reach the gulag.
"The wages of sin is death but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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DragonLegend
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Parasky
Mar 31 2010, 09:19 PM
DragonLegend
Mar 31 2010, 12:48 AM
But Christian terrorism is hardly as relevant, important or dangerous as Islamic terrorism.
I wouldn't say that. Perhaps Islamic terrorism is more widespread, but terrorism is terrorism; there is no "worse" kind. It's all equally relevant, important, and dangerous, that's it's intended purpose.
I beg to differ. There is a clear difference between the global Islamic Jihad and some Christian lunatics bombing an abortion clinic and killing cops.
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Parasky
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There is no war in Crimea
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There's a difference between a Muslim blowing something up and a Christian blowing something up? Sounds biased to me.
"The wages of sin is death but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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DragonLegend
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Not if you consider the Islamic terrorist attack an isolated incident. However, as we all well know, Islamic terrorist attacks are no isolated incidents.
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