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HISTORY IN THE MAKING 2008-2016

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We've spent a good many years discussing politics, life, society and history. Most of all, the makers of history. The great events that changed the world - people, places, actions. Small acts have changed its hard-worn course, and effort and circumstance can make of its small actors immortal greats. In line with that sentiment, it seems pertinent now to recognize the potential of those who've made up this community for years, obvious through their contributions to the spirited debate and discussion that has proceeded here. HITM has sadly gone silent, though perhaps not lacking for things to say about making history, but rather for the realization that it is time we all commenced to do so, and make our mark.

Good luck to you all, see you in the history books!
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Urologist Tells Obama Voters to Piss Off
Topic Started: Apr 2 2010, 04:10 PM (317 Views)
DragonLegend
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Posted Image

Orlando Sentinel

Quote:
 
A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care "elsewhere."

"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. "But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it."

The sign reads: "If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years." [...]

Cassell, whose lawyer wife, Leslie Campione, has declared herself a Republican candidate for Lake County commissioner, said three patients have complained, but most have been "overwhelmingly supportive" of his position.

"They know it's not good for them," he said.


:good:
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Somebody's angry about his monies!

Oh Noes! No more Lamborghini's!
_____________
Ok, so Obamacare is bad. I'll bet this guy has different motives though.
Edited by Ww2nerd, Apr 2 2010, 08:16 PM.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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Parasky
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There is no war in Crimea
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He still can't do that. That's discrimination, even if it's not intended to be so.
"The wages of sin is death but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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DragonLegend
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Parasky
Apr 2 2010, 08:42 PM
He still can't do that. That's discrimination, even if it's not intended to be so.
That was actually addressed in the article, but I didn't post that part. Here it is:

Quote:
 
Allen said doctors cannot refuse patients on the basis of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability, but political preference is not one of the legally protected categories specified in civil-rights law. By insisting he does not quiz his patients about their politics and has not turned away patients based on their vote, the doctor is "trying to hold onto the nub of his ethical obligation," Allen said.


Besides, the doctor's not denying anyone care:

Quote:
 
"I'm not turning anybody away — that would be unethical," Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Well, paying customers anyway.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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How dare he be rewarded for his efforts!
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

How dare he be rewarded excessively for his efforts and reject the Hippocratic oath in the process!
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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"Excessively"? Who are you to decide what he deserves and what he doesn't? If he wants to charge $1 million, he's free to do so. Confiscating someone's talent, time and effort is quite fascist, if you ask me.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Within reason, Legend.
They don't need or deserve nearly as much as they charge.

$75 for a 10 minute consultation?

They're in a position where what they have is necessary, they shouldn't be permitted to abuse that.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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They should be permitted to do whatever they want. If you don't like what someone is charging, you can go to someone else.
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

I don't agree, but that's me.
I'm not exactly a total believer in free capitalism.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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DragonLegend
Field Marshal
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C'mon; it's basic common sense to let someone charge whatever they want. Do you really think the government should have the power to come to your house or place of work, and tell you, "No, you can't charge that much"?

Let's say you spent a year building a laptop. Let's say you're trying to sell it for $4000. Do you think the government shouldn't let you do that?
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Ww2nerd
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Scion of the Midnight Sun

Within reason, Legend.

I'm talking about those who gouge prices, and no, they should not be allowed to charge whatever they like. Especially in an essential service like medicine.

It's not common sense. Free capitalism is one of the moral scourges of the world.
It values money over people and worships greed.

I'm not saying that private sectors shouldn't be permitted, but by no means do I support totally free capitalism, even in a model form. Essential services must be government controlled, or at the very least, regulated.

NO, I am not advocating total government control over the economy. That is also a terrible thing as it leads to suppression of creativity and corruption.

I like the happy medium. Like in Canada :D
(Though, professionals still gouge pretty bad in medicine, the province just absorbs it. I've had the misfortune to be forced into private clinics on two occasions due to it not being government covered). Wisdom teeth and to get my leg examined (I have a tightened Achilles tendon. He gave some stupid advice which was clearly just a money grab, so I didn't really bother having anything done about it)

Though, the bone does have slight curvature :s
Edited by Ww2nerd, Apr 3 2010, 05:14 AM.
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun,
by the men who moil for gold; the arctic trails have their secret tales that'd make your blood run cold...
the Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see...
was that night on the marge of Lake LeBarge, that I cremated Sam McGee."

- Robert W. Service
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Parasky
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There is no war in Crimea
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Ww2nerd
Apr 3 2010, 02:33 AM
Within reason, Legend.
They don't need or deserve nearly as much as they charge.

$75 for a 10 minute consultation?

They're in a position where what they have is necessary, they shouldn't be permitted to abuse that.
I agree, but I also agree with Dragon. He shouldn't charge something outrageous, but it is still a private business and still needs to pay people as well as maintain it's facilities. What's the point of opening a clinic if it can't afford to stay open and make a profit to improve it's services?

Health is necessary, but so is business. Can't have one without the other.
"The wages of sin is death but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays." - Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
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Nghtflame7
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The extremely high cost of health care does not really go into the pocket of Doctors in most cases. Yes, they make a good living, but they aren't all millionaires or anything close. A great deal of the cost of US medical care goes into the overhead that is inherent in the system, and which the health care bill does not address. There are a bunch of different administrative requirements, and fee scalses for the Docs to deal with. For that they have to hire administrative staff. Because of the litigious society in which we live, and the fact that health care reform refused to include tort reform, doctors pay huge malpractice premiums. Because the cost of higher education in the US is growing at 30+% every year or so, the amount of debt a doctor has to repay upon graduation is staggering ($300K in college debt is not unheard of.)

I just looked at a quick review of average doctor's salaries and it was between $150K and $200K per year. Yes, good money. But when you take into account the number of years of school and the overhead behind that, it isn't really that much.

During a recent piece on public radio that I heard, a doctor went into detail about where every bit of his $425 per hour fee went. After all the other costs, he was making about $80/hour. I think that was after taxes, but I'm not certain.

The point is, none of this has been improved on by Obamacare. With the proposed cuts to medicaide/care payments to doctors, in some cases they will pay more in administrative and overhead costs than they are paid by the government. In other words, they will not only be working for free, but they will be paying to work!
Build a man a fire, he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire, he's warm for the rest of his life.
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